5 ms·

Horrible doors on British trains (2010)

34 points by ganonm 9y ago

jstanley 9y ago
This paragraph about the door in the station is astounding: > The design model here is that the door is motion-sensor-activated. But the system image communicates to the user that it’s button-operated, so the user ends up with the wrong user model. Worst of all, the designer of this door went to lengths to create this bad system image. They deliberately designed a piece of plastic that looks like a button, aimed the motion sensor at it, and even added a light inside the button to highlight it more prominently to the user. They should have read Don Norman. I think what happened is the door was motion-activated, but people were failing to activate the sensor. But then, instead of drawing attention to the sensor, or adding a real button, they made a fake button that is vaguely in the area that the sensor points at, to try to trick people into moving their hands in the sensed region.
- fredley 9y ago
  I've been fighting these buttons my whole adult life, until reading this article I had no idea the button wasn't even a button (though they do not depress, I just assumed it was touch-sensitive). As one commenter points out, by far the worst UI is that of the toilet door mechanisms on some trains: three buttons for close, lock and open. It's terribly over-engineered, confusing, and requires an instruction panel. For a toilet door lock.
  - smcl 9y ago
    The toilet doors are awful - on more than one occasion I've tried to enter the bathroom only to see a horrified person sitting with their trousers/skirt down being slowly revealed to the world (having failed to hit the lock button after the door closed). No matter how frantically they mash the buttons they have to wait for that giant door to slowly open fully, then slowly close. Just awful.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
      They really are ridiculous. I was on a train journey recently where a frantic mother spent a good 5 minutes trying to extract her child who had accidentally locked the door from the inside and was in hysterics because he couldn't get out.
  - moonbug 9y ago
    https://zarino.co.uk/media/virgin-toilet-lock.jpg https://zarino.co.uk/media/virgin-toilet-lock.jpg For anyone who wants to see a door handle only an engineer could love.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      If the "open" button both unlocks and opens, what use case is there for closing the door from the inside without locking it?
      - longwave 9y ago
        The doors take so long to close that it would be easy to press the button and immediately exit the toilet, leaving it locked but with nobody inside, effectively taking it out of use for other passengers.
      - henrikeh 9y ago
        I think it is to prevent vandals from closing and locking the door from the outside.
      - crottypeter 9y ago
        I use that button to close the door when I have finished using the train toilet. You have to race the automatic door and rush out before it closes on you. (Of course the button should be outside).
        jstanley 9y ago
        Why do you want to close the door if you're not inside? If that's not the norm, doesn't it just indicate to others that the toilet is occupied?
        fredley 9y ago
        Because they stink, and it's very unpleasant for people in the carriage sitting near the toilet if the door is open.
  - gadders 9y ago
    Luckily on my trains we have those as well as the old style toilets. I don't trust the new ones at all.
  - mino 9y ago
    > I had no idea the button wasn't even a button I too "pressed" those buttons hundred of times. Never I would have imagined that they are just a piece of plastic with a motion sensor pointed on.
- encrystation 9y ago
  That's the door between train carriages, not in the station. I've never experienced an issue with the fake button but I'm going to pay attention to that sensor now!
- philipov 9y ago
  And replacing the motion sensor with an actual button never occurred to anyone. I guess it was a vendor's business requirement to justify the price? I can imagine that conversation between manager and engineer, "No, you can't remove the motion sensor. We sold them motion-sensitive doors! And while you're at it, the sensor's cost needs to be reduced more."
- crottypeter 9y ago
  On busy commuter trains those doors (between carriages) never close because there are people standing close enough to trigger the sensor at all times. As a result the train is noisy and draughtier than necessary.
- gadders 9y ago
  Sometimes the button and the sensor don't work so you have to pull them apart with your bare hands.
moonbug 9y ago
The toilet doors, on the other hand...
- swarnie_ 9y ago
  They just seem to open whenever they feel like regardless of the occupants needs.
- gehsty 9y ago
  They have to be the most confusing door system I've ever seen. The very worst has to be the toilet lid blocking the flush button, so you have to touch (or ninja kick) the lid down in order to flush. My hands have never felt clean since.
n4r9 9y ago
The post is from 2010, and title is a bit misleading even with that taken into account. I haven't seen a train with this type of door for many, many years. I don't doubt there are still a few still knocking about in the UK though.
- arethuza 9y ago
  The trains I use don't have these kinds of doors but some of the trains running from Edinburgh on the "inland" section of the Fife loop have the old style external door handles.
- kelnage 9y ago
  I travel from the south-west of England towards London every weekday, on a service that runs hourly. As far as I know, the trains that service this route only use this type of outside-only-opening train door, including the train I rode this morning. They are still very common here.
  - Singletoned 9y ago
    Yes, a majority of the fast trains running from London towards Wales have this style of door.
  - n4r9 9y ago
    It must be a few routes that still use these trains. I was commuting from Guildford into London until quite recently and it was always an electric-opening door.
- Khol 9y ago
  The trains from Paddington through Bristol have this type of door. I've never found them notably awkward - The main issue I see is people using them with the wrong hand (as the man in the photograph is doing) as your arm doesn't bend the way it needs to.
- Milner08 9y ago
  The old stock GWR trains are still like this. They still use quite a few of them although they are being removed slowly by the looks of things.
dghf 9y ago
It's been a while since I've had to open a train door by leaning out of the window. All the trains I take have buttons to open the doors.
- shrikant 9y ago
  I do this almost every day. The old Great Western Railway fleet (which is still most of the services out of Paddington) has these horrible door handles.
ninjamayo 9y ago
Not to mention the terrible new ticket machines introduced in train stations across the country, who supposedly have touch screens but require pressing on a specific angle the buttons. The machines have one of the worst UI designs I have ever witnessed which confuses and delays on a daily basis people who just want to go to work. And let's not mention the new trains that have an LCD display for bookings which is actually not used because they still put reservation papers on top of the seat. I have asked several times ticket inspectors and apparently the booking software doesn't work and often crashes. How hard can it be??? Enough ranting!
- dazc 9y ago
  'The machines have one of the worst UI designs I have ever witnessed which confuses and delays ...' The few stations where I've witnessed this, the bloke standing by the machine will just wave people through an open gate, provided they don't look like someone who will be a fare-dodger; which seems a very efficient way of doing things really?
  - ninjamayo 9y ago
    On a couple of occasions they refused to do that, not sure why. Still, what is the point of ticket machines and barriers if you are going to wave people through based on bouncer principles.
    - dazc 9y ago
      Exactly. Ironically, today, we read about a supermarket with no checkout yet we still have simple ticket barriers that quite often don't work?
- carlosperate 9y ago
  > touch screens but require pressing on a specific angle the buttons It's possible the angle thing is because your nail works better than your fingertip. I've had this situation a couple of times, and selecting with the nail definitely worked better, but my experience with this is completely anecdotal.
dazc 9y ago
Years back, there were a spate of deaths resulting from people falling from train doors while moving. I expect this explains why some doors are now difficult to open? http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=393 http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=393 Also accepted, just good-old poor design can also be a factor.
fabian2k 9y ago
The handle only on the outside of the door is quite a bit more ridiculous than what I was expecting. The old-style doors in German trains can also be hard to open. They have a handle on the inside, but they seem to require a considerable amount of force at times, and they have no clear indicator on when they are locked or unlocked. And the time to unlock after the train stops doesn't seem very consistent to me. They aren't very common anymore, but they do tend to confuse passengers that aren't used to them.
SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago
Parisian metro and RER are nice. Metro is just a silver handle you flip and I believe it locks while in movement (I haven't ridden long enough in Paris to be able to see someone try to flip the handle when it moves). Sweden/Denmark do it a bit better even. Sweden/Denmark regional trains are just a button in the door that lights up when you can press to open (only when stopped). In Denmark the metro is all automated with the doors. They do also have the infuriating motion sensors for the middle of the trains though where you stand there like an idiot sometimes trying to trip it and end up having to wave your hand above your head to get it to open.
- SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
  > Sweden/Denmark regional trains are just a button in the door that lights up when you can press to open (only when stopped). To be fair, the majority of the trains I've been on here in the UK work like this too (and all of the London Underground trains work this way). It seems that the externally-handled carriages mentioned in the article are being phased out.
pjc50 9y ago
The exterior-handle doors were very common on the "slam door" trains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam-door_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam-door_train They had one massive advantage that the sheer number of doors, one for every group of 8 seats on some units, made it very easy to get on and off. The disadvantage was the inconvenience and danger to the user, as well as inaccessibility for disabled users.
- gadders 9y ago
  The other advantage was you could open the door as the train was pulling into the station and jump off onto the platform as it was slowing down but still moving.
mrarjen 9y ago
This is indeed quite bad... but it also reminds me of trains in NL, some have mid section doors that have the same layout as on the photo, with a lit up button that you need to press to open the door. Usually I'd see people try to pull the small handle for minutes on end just to give up and instead stand in the pathway. Or other doors that have a automatic closing function and you need to pull a handle for it to open again. When entering the train, not everyone pulls the handle so it sometimes automatically closes when someone is in between the door. If nobody knows that they need to pull the handle this can take a while before the horde of people entering/exiting resumes moving again. (Especially hard on old ladies that get stuck :( )
bengillies 9y ago
> Notice how a real person’s arm doesn’t reach the handle quite as easily as the stick figure in the diagram Not that these doors aren't terrible design (they are), but notice how the stick figure is facing towards the handle when they open it, but the man in the image is facing away from the handle and reaching behind him to open it. If he turned around to face the other way before trying to open the door, he'd find it a lot easier.
- to3m 9y ago
  He's doing that because the designers of the door appear to have forgotten that 90% of people are right-handed...
jo909 9y ago
As far as I understand this is a historic safety mechanism. Trains were very popular and important in the UK, transporting nearly the same amount of passenger pre World War 1 as they do today. At this time no central locking existed and many train compartments, especially for the rich, had their own door that opens to the outside. With handles on the inside it is much more likely to open by accident. The door contained the only window in the aisle between the seats of the compartment, where you would stand to look outside, so people naturally lean against it. At the time central locking came around it wasn't necessarily reliable and people were already used to the situation, so there is little reason to suddenly introduce internal door handles again.
dschuetz 9y ago
That's quite funny to read having the Brexit in the back of the mind. With the crippling EU regulations as one of the main reasons. Well, the dignity of a British person needs to be challenged sometimes to remind them that it's still there.
Nursie 9y ago
This is quite out of date as mentioned - some of the old slam-door trains were hard to use and a little scary, but they've been out of commission anywhere I've travelled for... a decade? More? Interested on the doors in-between carriages though, I see these quite a lot, and they aren't the most responsive buttons. I will be looking out for those sensors!
- Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
  HSTs with exterior-open doors are still running all over Britain - the whole Great Western network, certain CrossCountry routes, diesel East Coast services to northern Scotland, etc. They are due to be replaced in the next couple of years, however, or (in a few cases) fitted with electric doors.
  - Nursie 9y ago
    Oh really? I didn't realise. Guess that shows how far I've travelled by train lately - I mostly stick to South Western Rail.

34 points by ganonm 9y ago

This paragraph about the door in the station is astounding: > The design model here is that the door is motion-sensor-activated. But the system image communicates to the user that it’s button-operated, so the user ends up with the wrong user model. Worst of all, the designer of this door went to lengths to create this bad system image. They deliberately designed a piece of plastic that looks like a button, aimed the motion sensor at it, and even added a light inside the button to highlight it more prominently to the user. They should have read Don Norman. I think what happened is the door was motion-activated, but people were failing to activate the sensor. But then, instead of drawing attention to the sensor, or adding a real button, they made a fake button that is vaguely in the area that the sensor points at, to try to trick people into moving their hands in the sensed region.

fredley 9y ago
I've been fighting these buttons my whole adult life, until reading this article I had no idea the button wasn't even a button (though they do not depress, I just assumed it was touch-sensitive). As one commenter points out, by far the worst UI is that of the toilet door mechanisms on some trains: three buttons for close, lock and open. It's terribly over-engineered, confusing, and requires an instruction panel. For a toilet door lock.
- smcl 9y ago
  The toilet doors are awful - on more than one occasion I've tried to enter the bathroom only to see a horrified person sitting with their trousers/skirt down being slowly revealed to the world (having failed to hit the lock button after the door closed). No matter how frantically they mash the buttons they have to wait for that giant door to slowly open fully, then slowly close. Just awful.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
    They really are ridiculous. I was on a train journey recently where a frantic mother spent a good 5 minutes trying to extract her child who had accidentally locked the door from the inside and was in hysterics because he couldn't get out.
- moonbug 9y ago
  https://zarino.co.uk/media/virgin-toilet-lock.jpg https://zarino.co.uk/media/virgin-toilet-lock.jpg For anyone who wants to see a door handle only an engineer could love.
  - jstanley 9y ago
    If the "open" button both unlocks and opens, what use case is there for closing the door from the inside without locking it?
    - longwave 9y ago
      The doors take so long to close that it would be easy to press the button and immediately exit the toilet, leaving it locked but with nobody inside, effectively taking it out of use for other passengers.
    - henrikeh 9y ago
      I think it is to prevent vandals from closing and locking the door from the outside.
    - crottypeter 9y ago
      I use that button to close the door when I have finished using the train toilet. You have to race the automatic door and rush out before it closes on you. (Of course the button should be outside).
      - jstanley 9y ago
        Why do you want to close the door if you're not inside? If that's not the norm, doesn't it just indicate to others that the toilet is occupied?
        fredley 9y ago
        Because they stink, and it's very unpleasant for people in the carriage sitting near the toilet if the door is open.
- gadders 9y ago
  Luckily on my trains we have those as well as the old style toilets. I don't trust the new ones at all.
- mino 9y ago
  > I had no idea the button wasn't even a button I too "pressed" those buttons hundred of times. Never I would have imagined that they are just a piece of plastic with a motion sensor pointed on.
encrystation 9y ago
That's the door between train carriages, not in the station. I've never experienced an issue with the fake button but I'm going to pay attention to that sensor now!
philipov 9y ago
And replacing the motion sensor with an actual button never occurred to anyone. I guess it was a vendor's business requirement to justify the price? I can imagine that conversation between manager and engineer, "No, you can't remove the motion sensor. We sold them motion-sensitive doors! And while you're at it, the sensor's cost needs to be reduced more."
crottypeter 9y ago
On busy commuter trains those doors (between carriages) never close because there are people standing close enough to trigger the sensor at all times. As a result the train is noisy and draughtier than necessary.
gadders 9y ago
Sometimes the button and the sensor don't work so you have to pull them apart with your bare hands.

moonbug 9y ago

The toilet doors, on the other hand...

swarnie_ 9y ago
They just seem to open whenever they feel like regardless of the occupants needs.
gehsty 9y ago
They have to be the most confusing door system I've ever seen. The very worst has to be the toilet lid blocking the flush button, so you have to touch (or ninja kick) the lid down in order to flush. My hands have never felt clean since.

n4r9 9y ago

The post is from 2010, and title is a bit misleading even with that taken into account. I haven't seen a train with this type of door for many, many years. I don't doubt there are still a few still knocking about in the UK though.

arethuza 9y ago
The trains I use don't have these kinds of doors but some of the trains running from Edinburgh on the "inland" section of the Fife loop have the old style external door handles.
kelnage 9y ago
I travel from the south-west of England towards London every weekday, on a service that runs hourly. As far as I know, the trains that service this route only use this type of outside-only-opening train door, including the train I rode this morning. They are still very common here.
- Singletoned 9y ago
  Yes, a majority of the fast trains running from London towards Wales have this style of door.
- n4r9 9y ago
  It must be a few routes that still use these trains. I was commuting from Guildford into London until quite recently and it was always an electric-opening door.
Khol 9y ago
The trains from Paddington through Bristol have this type of door. I've never found them notably awkward - The main issue I see is people using them with the wrong hand (as the man in the photograph is doing) as your arm doesn't bend the way it needs to.
Milner08 9y ago
The old stock GWR trains are still like this. They still use quite a few of them although they are being removed slowly by the looks of things.

dghf 9y ago

It's been a while since I've had to open a train door by leaning out of the window. All the trains I take have buttons to open the doors.

shrikant 9y ago
I do this almost every day. The old Great Western Railway fleet (which is still most of the services out of Paddington) has these horrible door handles.

ninjamayo 9y ago

Not to mention the terrible new ticket machines introduced in train stations across the country, who supposedly have touch screens but require pressing on a specific angle the buttons. The machines have one of the worst UI designs I have ever witnessed which confuses and delays on a daily basis people who just want to go to work. And let's not mention the new trains that have an LCD display for bookings which is actually not used because they still put reservation papers on top of the seat. I have asked several times ticket inspectors and apparently the booking software doesn't work and often crashes. How hard can it be??? Enough ranting!

dazc 9y ago
'The machines have one of the worst UI designs I have ever witnessed which confuses and delays ...' The few stations where I've witnessed this, the bloke standing by the machine will just wave people through an open gate, provided they don't look like someone who will be a fare-dodger; which seems a very efficient way of doing things really?
- ninjamayo 9y ago
  On a couple of occasions they refused to do that, not sure why. Still, what is the point of ticket machines and barriers if you are going to wave people through based on bouncer principles.
  - dazc 9y ago
    Exactly. Ironically, today, we read about a supermarket with no checkout yet we still have simple ticket barriers that quite often don't work?
carlosperate 9y ago
> touch screens but require pressing on a specific angle the buttons It's possible the angle thing is because your nail works better than your fingertip. I've had this situation a couple of times, and selecting with the nail definitely worked better, but my experience with this is completely anecdotal.

dazc 9y ago

Years back, there were a spate of deaths resulting from people falling from train doors while moving. I expect this explains why some doors are now difficult to open? http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=393 http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=393 Also accepted, just good-old poor design can also be a factor.

fabian2k 9y ago

The handle only on the outside of the door is quite a bit more ridiculous than what I was expecting. The old-style doors in German trains can also be hard to open. They have a handle on the inside, but they seem to require a considerable amount of force at times, and they have no clear indicator on when they are locked or unlocked. And the time to unlock after the train stops doesn't seem very consistent to me. They aren't very common anymore, but they do tend to confuse passengers that aren't used to them.

SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago

Parisian metro and RER are nice. Metro is just a silver handle you flip and I believe it locks while in movement (I haven't ridden long enough in Paris to be able to see someone try to flip the handle when it moves). Sweden/Denmark do it a bit better even. Sweden/Denmark regional trains are just a button in the door that lights up when you can press to open (only when stopped). In Denmark the metro is all automated with the doors. They do also have the infuriating motion sensors for the middle of the trains though where you stand there like an idiot sometimes trying to trip it and end up having to wave your hand above your head to get it to open.

SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
> Sweden/Denmark regional trains are just a button in the door that lights up when you can press to open (only when stopped). To be fair, the majority of the trains I've been on here in the UK work like this too (and all of the London Underground trains work this way). It seems that the externally-handled carriages mentioned in the article are being phased out.

pjc50 9y ago

The exterior-handle doors were very common on the "slam door" trains: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam-door_train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam-door_train They had one massive advantage that the sheer number of doors, one for every group of 8 seats on some units, made it very easy to get on and off. The disadvantage was the inconvenience and danger to the user, as well as inaccessibility for disabled users.

gadders 9y ago
The other advantage was you could open the door as the train was pulling into the station and jump off onto the platform as it was slowing down but still moving.

mrarjen 9y ago

This is indeed quite bad... but it also reminds me of trains in NL, some have mid section doors that have the same layout as on the photo, with a lit up button that you need to press to open the door. Usually I'd see people try to pull the small handle for minutes on end just to give up and instead stand in the pathway. Or other doors that have a automatic closing function and you need to pull a handle for it to open again. When entering the train, not everyone pulls the handle so it sometimes automatically closes when someone is in between the door. If nobody knows that they need to pull the handle this can take a while before the horde of people entering/exiting resumes moving again. (Especially hard on old ladies that get stuck :( )

bengillies 9y ago

> Notice how a real person’s arm doesn’t reach the handle quite as easily as the stick figure in the diagram Not that these doors aren't terrible design (they are), but notice how the stick figure is facing towards the handle when they open it, but the man in the image is facing away from the handle and reaching behind him to open it. If he turned around to face the other way before trying to open the door, he'd find it a lot easier.

to3m 9y ago
He's doing that because the designers of the door appear to have forgotten that 90% of people are right-handed...

jo909 9y ago

As far as I understand this is a historic safety mechanism. Trains were very popular and important in the UK, transporting nearly the same amount of passenger pre World War 1 as they do today. At this time no central locking existed and many train compartments, especially for the rich, had their own door that opens to the outside. With handles on the inside it is much more likely to open by accident. The door contained the only window in the aisle between the seats of the compartment, where you would stand to look outside, so people naturally lean against it. At the time central locking came around it wasn't necessarily reliable and people were already used to the situation, so there is little reason to suddenly introduce internal door handles again.

dschuetz 9y ago

That's quite funny to read having the Brexit in the back of the mind. With the crippling EU regulations as one of the main reasons. Well, the dignity of a British person needs to be challenged sometimes to remind them that it's still there.

Nursie 9y ago

This is quite out of date as mentioned - some of the old slam-door trains were hard to use and a little scary, but they've been out of commission anywhere I've travelled for... a decade? More? Interested on the doors in-between carriages though, I see these quite a lot, and they aren't the most responsive buttons. I will be looking out for those sensors!

Doctor_Fegg 9y ago
HSTs with exterior-open doors are still running all over Britain - the whole Great Western network, certain CrossCountry routes, diesel East Coast services to northern Scotland, etc. They are due to be replaced in the next couple of years, however, or (in a few cases) fitted with electric doors.
- Nursie 9y ago
  Oh really? I didn't realise. Guess that shows how far I've travelled by train lately - I mostly stick to South Western Rail.