5 ms·

> FOSS is so important FOSS is nice, but it's not a silver bullet. In this case I think Linus is largely to thank. Things will be a lot harder if he decides to

> FOSS is so important FOSS is nice, but it's not a silver bullet. In this case I think Linus is largely to thank. Things will be a lot harder if he decides to retire.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
A silver bullet is having one smart guy at the top who doesn't care how much pressure you exert on getting something into the codebase, or how much man-hours were spent (sunk cost fallacy). I think in a lot of "corporate" projects (not-open source) there's much less of that and the software is designed by commission, with the lead developer(s) quickly no longer having much of an influence on the code itself, being drawn away into meetings and such. Maybe I'm projecting.
- mrmondo 9y ago
  It’s an ideological situation to say the least... but it’s also what we have right know and god damn I’m thankful for it’s beautiful rarity.
- joelthelion 9y ago
  > A silver bullet is having one smart guy at the top who doesn't care how much pressure you exert on getting something into the codebase, Well if Linus goes too far, Google and a couple other big corporate contributors could team up and fork Linux, and it would be very hard for the open project to compete. I think the fact that Linus is so good is a big part of what makes the whole thing hold together.
  - subway 9y ago
    They could, and they often do (Android and ChromeOS effectively run forked kernels). At the end of the day though, they always wanna rebase against that sweet sweet mainline quality.
    - carlmr 9y ago
      It's simple, the stack of hacks they produced in the meantime at some point becomes a tall tower prone to fall over.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  I think this is dead on. I think at Microsoft that guy was Dave Cutler. Most of the really well designed stuff seems to have him at the helm - NT4.0, bits of XP, Win2k, Windows Server 2003 and then Azure. I have a suspicion that Satya's rise to CEOdom via Azure's success could be attributed to him too.
  - EamonnMR 9y ago
    If you're a Cutler fan you may enjoy Showstopper[1], an account of the creation of NT. 1: https://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Microsoft/dp/0029356717 https://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Mic...
    - azinman2 9y ago
      Thanks for the rec, looks interesting.
      - trentnelson 9y ago
        It's a great book. Motivated me to switch industries and relocate to Seattle as an NT kernel programmer.
- alxlaz 9y ago
  This may be true, but FOSS does not magically make it happen. Many FOSS projects are led or dominated by large companies today; the development may happen in the open, but it is as "corporate" as it gets, and no bullshit calling occurs (or if it does, it is quickly silenced with EWONTFIX & co.)
  - hajile 9y ago
    That's only partially true. When you only have one corporations interests, things get shady very quickly. When you have multiple, competing corporations, they have a vested interest in keeping their competitors honest. It would be very rare indeed to find something that every company wanted to downplay at the same time. Spectre and meltdown are a great example of this. Sure, ARM, Intel, and (to a lesser extent) AMD may want to downplay these things, but Google did not, so it became a big deal anyway.
  - vog 9y ago
    > This may be true, but FOSS does not magically make it happen So what? Nobody said that. This is a strawman. Of course FOSS is not sufficient. Look at any homework-style GitHub repo. Nobody disputes that. All that is said is that FOSS is necessary to achieve this level of quality.
- katastic 9y ago
  Which is funny because that's the opposite of what progressives are telling us. That meritocracy is meaningless (and bigoted) and it's more important to have diversity than a leader. Likewise, there are countless articles about how Linus Torvalds is a "jerk" because he doesn't temper his words and ends up offending people with thin skins. I don't care about anyone's ideology. I'll I care about is results. And Linus has proven his yields results.
- khana 9y ago
  Well by all means don't 'speculate'.
- snambi 9y ago
  We may be we can train an MBA to do Linus's job? ;)
vog 9y ago
So you demote FOSS from "important" to "nice" just because it isn't a silver bullet? (which does not exist, anyway) That doesn't make any sense. This is a strawman argument. Nobody ever said that FOSS is a silver bullet, not even FSFE, FSF, or Stallman himself.
acct1771 9y ago
This is as good a place to ask the question nobody likes to discuss, but is important to never forget - what do we do when the bus hits Linus?
- sethrin 9y ago
  I believe Greg Kroah-Hartman is the designated successor.

> FOSS is so important FOSS is nice, but it's not a silver bullet. In this case I think Linus is largely to thank. Things will be a lot harder if he decides to retire.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

A silver bullet is having one smart guy at the top who doesn't care how much pressure you exert on getting something into the codebase, or how much man-hours were spent (sunk cost fallacy). I think in a lot of "corporate" projects (not-open source) there's much less of that and the software is designed by commission, with the lead developer(s) quickly no longer having much of an influence on the code itself, being drawn away into meetings and such. Maybe I'm projecting.

mrmondo 9y ago
It’s an ideological situation to say the least... but it’s also what we have right know and god damn I’m thankful for it’s beautiful rarity.
joelthelion 9y ago
> A silver bullet is having one smart guy at the top who doesn't care how much pressure you exert on getting something into the codebase, Well if Linus goes too far, Google and a couple other big corporate contributors could team up and fork Linux, and it would be very hard for the open project to compete. I think the fact that Linus is so good is a big part of what makes the whole thing hold together.
- subway 9y ago
  They could, and they often do (Android and ChromeOS effectively run forked kernels). At the end of the day though, they always wanna rebase against that sweet sweet mainline quality.
  - carlmr 9y ago
    It's simple, the stack of hacks they produced in the meantime at some point becomes a tall tower prone to fall over.
crdoconnor 9y ago
I think this is dead on. I think at Microsoft that guy was Dave Cutler. Most of the really well designed stuff seems to have him at the helm - NT4.0, bits of XP, Win2k, Windows Server 2003 and then Azure. I have a suspicion that Satya's rise to CEOdom via Azure's success could be attributed to him too.
- EamonnMR 9y ago
  If you're a Cutler fan you may enjoy Showstopper[1], an account of the creation of NT. 1: https://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Microsoft/dp/0029356717 https://www.amazon.com/Show-Stopper-Breakneck-Generation-Mic...
  - azinman2 9y ago
    Thanks for the rec, looks interesting.
    - trentnelson 9y ago
      It's a great book. Motivated me to switch industries and relocate to Seattle as an NT kernel programmer.
alxlaz 9y ago
This may be true, but FOSS does not magically make it happen. Many FOSS projects are led or dominated by large companies today; the development may happen in the open, but it is as "corporate" as it gets, and no bullshit calling occurs (or if it does, it is quickly silenced with EWONTFIX & co.)
- hajile 9y ago
  That's only partially true. When you only have one corporations interests, things get shady very quickly. When you have multiple, competing corporations, they have a vested interest in keeping their competitors honest. It would be very rare indeed to find something that every company wanted to downplay at the same time. Spectre and meltdown are a great example of this. Sure, ARM, Intel, and (to a lesser extent) AMD may want to downplay these things, but Google did not, so it became a big deal anyway.
- vog 9y ago
  > This may be true, but FOSS does not magically make it happen So what? Nobody said that. This is a strawman. Of course FOSS is not sufficient. Look at any homework-style GitHub repo. Nobody disputes that. All that is said is that FOSS is necessary to achieve this level of quality.
katastic 9y ago
Which is funny because that's the opposite of what progressives are telling us. That meritocracy is meaningless (and bigoted) and it's more important to have diversity than a leader. Likewise, there are countless articles about how Linus Torvalds is a "jerk" because he doesn't temper his words and ends up offending people with thin skins. I don't care about anyone's ideology. I'll I care about is results. And Linus has proven his yields results.
khana 9y ago
Well by all means don't 'speculate'.
snambi 9y ago
We may be we can train an MBA to do Linus's job? ;)

vog 9y ago

So you demote FOSS from "important" to "nice" just because it isn't a silver bullet? (which does not exist, anyway) That doesn't make any sense. This is a strawman argument. Nobody ever said that FOSS is a silver bullet, not even FSFE, FSF, or Stallman himself.

acct1771 9y ago

This is as good a place to ask the question nobody likes to discuss, but is important to never forget - what do we do when the bus hits Linus?

sethrin 9y ago
I believe Greg Kroah-Hartman is the designated successor.