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This is one of the best comments I have ever read. Thanks for writing this. Mostly because of how succinct it is. How can anyone argue with this? This is the c

This is one of the best comments I have ever read. Thanks for writing this. Mostly because of how succinct it is. How can anyone argue with this? This is the central problem, in three paragraphs. The only people who could argue "Well, but it's fair because..." are those who benefit from the status quo. But my mind is open to being persuaded otherwise. What can be done? Throughout history, revolution seems to be the only way to shake up the system, and those don't even work. (It worked for the US because an ocean separated it from its enemies.) And once the revolution settles, the system simply converges back on capitalism, e.g. China. Or Russia's feudal "maybe you can make a business, but if it becomes successful, the government will take it" model. (Also China.) I think the uncomfortable truth is that life just sucks, and the big will hold down the small and fuck them for eternity. I don't like phrasing it like that, but if it's the truth then we should face it. EDIT: Damn, this thread was marked as a dupe, so there's no chance of discussing this here. But we should revisit this topic by pointing out this exact comment next thread.

LyndsySimon 9y ago
> This is the central problem, in three paragraphs. It's only a problem if society as a whole decides that this is not the way they want to do things. > The only people who could argue "Well, but it's fair because..." are those who benefit from the status quo. But my mind is open to being persuaded otherwise. Hmmm. I disagree, but I must acknowledge that I definitely benefit from the status quo. I would not consider myself nor my family "wealthy" relative to the rest of the US, but relative to the rest of the world, absolutely. My parents in particular have made an enormous increase in their relative economic position over their lifetimes. As for "fair"... well, I think that's a term that is both very significant for most people and whose definition differs from person to person. Fair, to me, means that individuals are not subject to the forceful interference of third parties. If fair to someone else means that force should be used to lessen wealth inequality then those concepts are mutually incompatible and both goals cannot be pursued simultaneously. > And once the revolution settles, the system simply converges back on capitalism, e.g. China. It is my belief that this is part of the inherent nature of things. Societies tend toward greater liberty, while government tend toward greater power. These forces reach are both balanced and opposed, and where they find equilibrium depends on the value system of the governed. Further, I believe that as a species we are trending toward greater individual power. To borrow a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. (who in turn borrowed it from Theodore Parker): the arc of the human society is long, but it bends toward free-market Capitalism. > I think the uncomfortable truth is that life just sucks Now this, we can agree on :) > and the big will hold down the small and fuck them for eternity. I don't like phrasing it like that, but if it's the truth then we should face it. My views on economics are always implicitly suffixed with "... but this cannot happen in my lifetime, so we have to work with what we have." That said, while I have no illusions that I'll see the end of forceful government, I'm confident that my descendants will. I see it as my duty to do what I can to move society in that direction, just as I see it as my duty to impart my value on my own children and to provide for their future in the best ways I know how.

LyndsySimon 9y ago

> This is the central problem, in three paragraphs. It's only a problem if society as a whole decides that this is not the way they want to do things. > The only people who could argue "Well, but it's fair because..." are those who benefit from the status quo. But my mind is open to being persuaded otherwise. Hmmm. I disagree, but I must acknowledge that I definitely benefit from the status quo. I would not consider myself nor my family "wealthy" relative to the rest of the US, but relative to the rest of the world, absolutely. My parents in particular have made an enormous increase in their relative economic position over their lifetimes. As for "fair"... well, I think that's a term that is both very significant for most people and whose definition differs from person to person. Fair, to me, means that individuals are not subject to the forceful interference of third parties. If fair to someone else means that force should be used to lessen wealth inequality then those concepts are mutually incompatible and both goals cannot be pursued simultaneously. > And once the revolution settles, the system simply converges back on capitalism, e.g. China. It is my belief that this is part of the inherent nature of things. Societies tend toward greater liberty, while government tend toward greater power. These forces reach are both balanced and opposed, and where they find equilibrium depends on the value system of the governed. Further, I believe that as a species we are trending toward greater individual power. To borrow a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr. (who in turn borrowed it from Theodore Parker): the arc of the human society is long, but it bends toward free-market Capitalism. > I think the uncomfortable truth is that life just sucks Now this, we can agree on :) > and the big will hold down the small and fuck them for eternity. I don't like phrasing it like that, but if it's the truth then we should face it. My views on economics are always implicitly suffixed with "... but this cannot happen in my lifetime, so we have to work with what we have." That said, while I have no illusions that I'll see the end of forceful government, I'm confident that my descendants will. I see it as my duty to do what I can to move society in that direction, just as I see it as my duty to impart my value on my own children and to provide for their future in the best ways I know how.