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Unfortunately, I do not need to see a study to know that the waters near Lima (Where I live & surf) are full of crap.. That said, the healthy effects of the exe

Unfortunately, I do not need to see a study to know that the waters near Lima (Where I live & surf) are full of crap.. That said, the healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria, because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here.

computator 9y ago
> The healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria, because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here. You're making a conclusion about cause and effect. It might be the case that the majority of people who take up surfing are extremely healthy since it's a physically demanding sport.
- npunt 9y ago
  Exactly, the only people who’d continue surfing would be the ones whose immune systems could cope with the shock. If you kept getting sick after surfing you’d probably quit pretty quickly.
- bufferoverflow 9y ago
  It's not that physically demanding. I've seen 3-4 year olds in Hawaii do it. Like in any sport, it depends on how far you want to push yourself.
  - wellboy 9y ago
    Yes, they do 20cm white water waves, which is very easy. Difficulty increases by 5 if you go to the 2 m green water waves, where it usually takes you 10-20 mins of constant paddling through 2 m waves until you're behind the break.
  - maaaats 9y ago
    I've seen kids run, doesn't mean it's not physical demanding to run.
    - bufferoverflow 9y ago
      It's not, if you don't want it to be. Old grandmas run.
      - always_good 9y ago
        Are you saying surfers don't in general take surfing to physically demanding limits? If not, then I'm not sure what your point is. That you could dial it down if you wanted to even though surfers don't, but they could if they wanted to?
      - mtberatwork 9y ago
        Physical demand on the body is relative to the person. Kids paddling into small waves is much more demanding for them than for an adult. Same for grandmas.
jpuderer 9y ago
I'm also living in Lima, learning to surf and bodyboard, and was getting pretty excited about it. Two weeks ago the water was dark brown. Point taken, but... shrug? Like you said, seems like the merits of the exercise outweigh the downsides.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
That said, the healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria That was my initial thought as well, basically. Cystic fibrosis is a deadly genetic disorder that makes one vulnerable to infection. Last I checked, the life expectancy was about 37 in the US, though someone on HN recently said it is now age 40. People with CF who surfed had such a better prognosis than average that it led to development of a non drug treatment where they inhale nebulized saline solution as a treatment. I think a better solution is just consume good quality sea salt. That's what I did to good effect. But everyone tells me that's anecdotal, whereas the existence of hypertonic saline solution as a medically prescribed treatment for my deadly condition is sciency or something. (There is probably a better way to say that, but I can't think of it at the moment.)
- arkades 9y ago
  ...because patients with CF have hypotonic secretions in the lungs, resulting in mucous plugging, and the inhalation of a hypertonic solution into the same space would cause a fluid shift that would dilute the aforementioned mucous... which is to say, it’s an empirically-verified intervention with a solid grounding in the underlying pathophysiology. Whereas just eating sea salt has absolutely nothing to do with any of that. Which is to say, it’s anecdotal -and- not grounded in an underlying reasoning that makes sense in the context of the disease.
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    It is a mental model that assumes that CF is something in the lungs. This is not true. It is throughout the body, but especially impacts epidermal tissue, which includes both lung tissue and skin. Surfers are not just inhaling salty sea air. They are immersed in salt water and absorbing it through their skin. Plus people with CF are medically prescribed a high salt diet, so your assertion isn't really accurate. Consuming enough salt is a known treatment modality for CF. The only real difference here is that I felt the quality of salt mattered greatly. Furthermore, mucus is mostly salt and water, which is why you need to consume more of both when taking things like mucinex.
rhodysurf 9y ago
Yea same. Anecdotal but my surfer friends and I are seemingly never sick but other people I interact with are sick more often.
- tim333 9y ago
  It seems possible that exposure to bacteria in the water in small doses builds the bodies immune system to deal with those making subsequent problems less likely.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    When I was a little boy in New York City in the 1940s, we swam in the Hudson River and it was filled with raw sewage okay? We swam in raw sewage! You know... to cool off! And at that time, the big fear was polio; thousands of kids died from polio every year but you know something? In my neighbourhood, no one ever got polio! No one! Ever! You know why? Cause we swam in raw sewage! It strengthened our immune systems! The polio never had a prayer; we were tempered in raw shit! -- George Carlin
    - manmal 9y ago
      Like a multi-source fecal transplant, but without the rigid screening before donation.
  - rhodysurf 9y ago
    Its crazy. I surf at a spot next to a sewage outflow known to be dirty after rainstorms and have never gotten sick, even though I definitely swallow tons of water from there. There are probably other negative effects I dont realize are happening to my body though im sure.
usaphp 9y ago
> because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here Most of the serfers I know are just generally active people, they were like it long before becoming serfers, most did not become healthy because they are serfers, instead they become serfers because they like active healthy lifestyle.
- teekert 9y ago
  https://www.powerthesaurus.org/serfers https://www.powerthesaurus.org/serfers ?
  - superhuzza 9y ago
    To be fair, managing serfs is probably quite physically demanding also.
lawlessone 9y ago
They're physically fit, but if those resistant bacteria end up in a part of their body other than their gut it will be a lot harder to remove. They could be more likely to die in those cases.
tome 9y ago
Surely people who do the same amount of exercise as surfers but in the absence of harmful bacteria are even better off?
Angostura 9y ago
The ones who get really sick silently disappear from the surfing community.
sean2 9y ago
Counterpoint: here in Hawaii, my friends and coworkers who surf are some of the most frequently bacteria infested people: frequent nose and ear infections, plus occasional staff infections. These infections are usually confirmed by doctors for the people in their 50s or older, but us younger people are frequently under the weather from what I might now guess is bacterial infections.
- Retra 9y ago
  *staph infection

computator 9y ago

> The healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria, because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here. You're making a conclusion about cause and effect. It might be the case that the majority of people who take up surfing are extremely healthy since it's a physically demanding sport.

npunt 9y ago
Exactly, the only people who’d continue surfing would be the ones whose immune systems could cope with the shock. If you kept getting sick after surfing you’d probably quit pretty quickly.
bufferoverflow 9y ago
It's not that physically demanding. I've seen 3-4 year olds in Hawaii do it. Like in any sport, it depends on how far you want to push yourself.
- wellboy 9y ago
  Yes, they do 20cm white water waves, which is very easy. Difficulty increases by 5 if you go to the 2 m green water waves, where it usually takes you 10-20 mins of constant paddling through 2 m waves until you're behind the break.
- maaaats 9y ago
  I've seen kids run, doesn't mean it's not physical demanding to run.
  - bufferoverflow 9y ago
    It's not, if you don't want it to be. Old grandmas run.
    - always_good 9y ago
      Are you saying surfers don't in general take surfing to physically demanding limits? If not, then I'm not sure what your point is. That you could dial it down if you wanted to even though surfers don't, but they could if they wanted to?
    - mtberatwork 9y ago
      Physical demand on the body is relative to the person. Kids paddling into small waves is much more demanding for them than for an adult. Same for grandmas.

jpuderer 9y ago

I'm also living in Lima, learning to surf and bodyboard, and was getting pretty excited about it. Two weeks ago the water was dark brown. Point taken, but... shrug? Like you said, seems like the merits of the exercise outweigh the downsides.

DoreenMichele 9y ago

That said, the healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria That was my initial thought as well, basically. Cystic fibrosis is a deadly genetic disorder that makes one vulnerable to infection. Last I checked, the life expectancy was about 37 in the US, though someone on HN recently said it is now age 40. People with CF who surfed had such a better prognosis than average that it led to development of a non drug treatment where they inhale nebulized saline solution as a treatment. I think a better solution is just consume good quality sea salt. That's what I did to good effect. But everyone tells me that's anecdotal, whereas the existence of hypertonic saline solution as a medically prescribed treatment for my deadly condition is sciency or something. (There is probably a better way to say that, but I can't think of it at the moment.)

arkades 9y ago
...because patients with CF have hypotonic secretions in the lungs, resulting in mucous plugging, and the inhalation of a hypertonic solution into the same space would cause a fluid shift that would dilute the aforementioned mucous... which is to say, it’s an empirically-verified intervention with a solid grounding in the underlying pathophysiology. Whereas just eating sea salt has absolutely nothing to do with any of that. Which is to say, it’s anecdotal -and- not grounded in an underlying reasoning that makes sense in the context of the disease.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  It is a mental model that assumes that CF is something in the lungs. This is not true. It is throughout the body, but especially impacts epidermal tissue, which includes both lung tissue and skin. Surfers are not just inhaling salty sea air. They are immersed in salt water and absorbing it through their skin. Plus people with CF are medically prescribed a high salt diet, so your assertion isn't really accurate. Consuming enough salt is a known treatment modality for CF. The only real difference here is that I felt the quality of salt mattered greatly. Furthermore, mucus is mostly salt and water, which is why you need to consume more of both when taking things like mucinex.

rhodysurf 9y ago

Yea same. Anecdotal but my surfer friends and I are seemingly never sick but other people I interact with are sick more often.

tim333 9y ago
It seems possible that exposure to bacteria in the water in small doses builds the bodies immune system to deal with those making subsequent problems less likely.
- icebraining 9y ago
  When I was a little boy in New York City in the 1940s, we swam in the Hudson River and it was filled with raw sewage okay? We swam in raw sewage! You know... to cool off! And at that time, the big fear was polio; thousands of kids died from polio every year but you know something? In my neighbourhood, no one ever got polio! No one! Ever! You know why? Cause we swam in raw sewage! It strengthened our immune systems! The polio never had a prayer; we were tempered in raw shit! -- George Carlin
  - manmal 9y ago
    Like a multi-source fecal transplant, but without the rigid screening before donation.
- rhodysurf 9y ago
  Its crazy. I surf at a spot next to a sewage outflow known to be dirty after rainstorms and have never gotten sick, even though I definitely swallow tons of water from there. There are probably other negative effects I dont realize are happening to my body though im sure.

usaphp 9y ago

> because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here Most of the serfers I know are just generally active people, they were like it long before becoming serfers, most did not become healthy because they are serfers, instead they become serfers because they like active healthy lifestyle.

teekert 9y ago
https://www.powerthesaurus.org/serfers https://www.powerthesaurus.org/serfers ?
- superhuzza 9y ago
  To be fair, managing serfs is probably quite physically demanding also.

lawlessone 9y ago

They're physically fit, but if those resistant bacteria end up in a part of their body other than their gut it will be a lot harder to remove. They could be more likely to die in those cases.

tome 9y ago

Surely people who do the same amount of exercise as surfers but in the absence of harmful bacteria are even better off?

Angostura 9y ago

The ones who get really sick silently disappear from the surfing community.

sean2 9y ago

Counterpoint: here in Hawaii, my friends and coworkers who surf are some of the most frequently bacteria infested people: frequent nose and ear infections, plus occasional staff infections. These infections are usually confirmed by doctors for the people in their 50s or older, but us younger people are frequently under the weather from what I might now guess is bacterial infections.

Retra 9y ago
*staph infection