6 ms·

Sure. So that you can run out of money in 1 mo. instead of 6 in S.F. :-/ Startups that need to prove their value proposition before the money runs out should c

Sure. So that you can run out of money in 1 mo. instead of 6 in S.F. :-/ Startups that need to prove their value proposition before the money runs out should come to Poland. Very techy (Warsaw, Wroclaw in particular), and you have 2 years instead of 6 months (or 1) because of the extremely low cost of living. As a plus, really cheap beer and beautiful women.

always_good 9y ago
Mexico has the advantage of beaches and a few hour plane ride from the States to visit your loved ones. And better weather and an easier language. Poland is certainly a great place as well. As I get older though it's nice being a 2 hour plane ride from my aging parents in Texas.
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  If we're talking about North America, sure--if there are a lot of devs and not a lot of crime (no idea).
  - Kpourdeilami 9y ago
    Another very good option in North America is the Kitchener-Waterloo region in Ontario. Pros: - Significantly lower rent (~640 USD/mo for a one bedroom apartment in one of the safest neighbourhoods of Waterloo) - Low crime rate and very safe - Access to talent that has experience working for SV companies (facebook, google, amazon, apple, etc.) - Active 24/7. Even at 4am in the morning, there are students walking home from the library. - You don't have to learn a new language Cons: - Bad weather - An hour drive to the international airport in Toronto - Nothing else to do in the city other than working - Public transit only runs until midnight
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      I'd pick that over Mexico any day.
- tytytytytytytyt 9y ago
  Mexico also has a bonus 'do not travel' advisory in 5 states, for those seeking that extra bit of excitement.
- cpursley 9y ago
  What part of Mexico are you based out of? What download speeds are you seeing?
- culturestate 9y ago
  If I were looking somewhere in the Americas I'd probably choose Chile for some of the same reasons you mentioned. Santiago is a great town, relatively safe, and Chile has probably the most stable government in Central / South America. It doesn't fit the short flight criteria, but it's better than going Oslo to Dallas.
masonic 9y ago
come to Poland. How realistic is that for non-EU nationals and non-Polish speakers? Do you know of success stories?
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Sorry, as the topic was Norway I was only talking about Europe. As for the language, I'm Italian working with devs and I've yet to find any dev that doesn't speak English fluently. Not the same for regular people, but not sure about Norway, either.
  - foobiekr 9y ago
    I worked on site with a dev team in Sopot for a few weeks. While really nice guys, their English was not very good. The frigid temperatures by October were also an issue.
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      You have to go to semi-major, techy cities. I'm in Wroclaw and it's perfect for startups, Warsaw for huge corporations. They even speak English among themselves.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
_delirium 9y ago
Maybe surprisingly, Norway is cheaper than SF for many people. (Not as cheap as Poland, of course.) Admittedly, a lot of consumer goods are more expensive in Norway than SF (especially alcohol). But rent is lower, even in Oslo, which is likely to be many people's biggest expense. Also, health insurance is included in the tax rate instead of a separate expense.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  Rent might be lower, but taxes are much higher, making it much harder to come up with the cash required to pay rent from salary. If you're not a first-timer, but someone with a previous exit and some capital under your belt, then there is the wealth tax to deal with.
  - _delirium 9y ago
    If you're already rich, yeah, that's a different scenario, then you have a whole wealth-planning thing to think about. If we're talking about a startup founder making more in the neighborhood of low 6 figures, though, taxes are basically a wash between Norway and SF, and cheaper in Norway if you take into account that it includes health insurance while the US taxes don't. For me, what taxes I'd pay if I exited with a fabulously wealthy payday are more in the "Maserati problem" category, but ymmv. Putting in $100k into a Norwegian [1] and CA [2] tax calculator, for example, at that particular income they coincidentally come out almost identical: about $32k (~32% effective rate) in both cases. In Norway it's one central tax at the effective rate of 32%. In SF it's the sum of: 18% federal, 7.65% payroll, 6.3% state. [1] https://skattekalkulator.app.skatteetaten.no/ https://skattekalkulator.app.skatteetaten.no/ [2] https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator
dfee 9y ago
I would like to find a place that claims it has less than beautiful women. "Well, that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  > I would like to find a place that claims it has less than beautiful women. I mean, it's preference. I'm from Italy and no matter what you might say or have heard, women up north and central Italy are not that sexy in general, often wearing jeans and hoddies and not taking good care of the way they look. They're also not that friendly, and as girlfriends, wives and in particular mothers are a pain in the ass. American girls you might find abroad or in major cities are usually sexy, take care of themselves, and are friendly. I was married to an American for a few years and lived in Miami for 3 years Turkish, Albanian, Romanian women--for instance--are definitely less attractive than other places I've been. As for Poland, they always look very nice, and are generally friendly. I'm currently dating a woman from Poland for 3 years. Of course, we're generalizing and I'm talking from my very limited experience, there are beautiful women everywhere (or ugly, for that matter), people's taste is different, etc. etc. I know that here when you go anywhere it's hard to find one I wouldn't date if I didn't have a girlfriend!
  - mlevental 9y ago
    like color me impressed but this is some serious chauvinism. how come no one flags this or complains about it as vociferously as they do about sjws? in my opinion (not humble at all) this stuff should be treated exactly like if it were racist slurring.
    - nkkollaw 9y ago
      Oh, give me a break--seriously. It's a trend of our times to get offended for everything, to the point that one can't say anything without being politically incorrect and having somebody complain. Can I have an opinion and express it? I didn't say that a black person's brain is smaller or other dumb stuff like that, I just said that women look differently across the world, and I find some of those different features more attractive than others. You know, it's normal for others to say things you might not like or agree with, it doesn't mean you have to flag them.
jackaroe78 9y ago
And a pretty great bunch of 8-bit Atari enthusiasts to boot! (not a startup, but still really look forward to visiting someday)
balladeer 9y ago
How is the rent scene there? And the general cost of living - for a graduate student? Is English sufficient to live by as it is in say Germany and NL, at least for initial six months or so? Thinking of keeping it as an option for my MS.
- siquick 9y ago
  The vast majority of people in the Netherlands speak fluent English.
yazr 9y ago
Whats the English-speaking situation in these cities ? Can you get by with just English for the first year and the first 10 employees ?
- nkkollaw 9y ago
  Absolutely. I don't speak Polish and I was able to open a company, find an accountant, hire help.

always_good 9y ago

Mexico has the advantage of beaches and a few hour plane ride from the States to visit your loved ones. And better weather and an easier language. Poland is certainly a great place as well. As I get older though it's nice being a 2 hour plane ride from my aging parents in Texas.

nkkollaw 9y ago
If we're talking about North America, sure--if there are a lot of devs and not a lot of crime (no idea).
- Kpourdeilami 9y ago
  Another very good option in North America is the Kitchener-Waterloo region in Ontario. Pros: - Significantly lower rent (~640 USD/mo for a one bedroom apartment in one of the safest neighbourhoods of Waterloo) - Low crime rate and very safe - Access to talent that has experience working for SV companies (facebook, google, amazon, apple, etc.) - Active 24/7. Even at 4am in the morning, there are students walking home from the library. - You don't have to learn a new language Cons: - Bad weather - An hour drive to the international airport in Toronto - Nothing else to do in the city other than working - Public transit only runs until midnight
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    I'd pick that over Mexico any day.
tytytytytytytyt 9y ago
Mexico also has a bonus 'do not travel' advisory in 5 states, for those seeking that extra bit of excitement.
cpursley 9y ago
What part of Mexico are you based out of? What download speeds are you seeing?
culturestate 9y ago
If I were looking somewhere in the Americas I'd probably choose Chile for some of the same reasons you mentioned. Santiago is a great town, relatively safe, and Chile has probably the most stable government in Central / South America. It doesn't fit the short flight criteria, but it's better than going Oslo to Dallas.

masonic 9y ago

come to Poland. How realistic is that for non-EU nationals and non-Polish speakers? Do you know of success stories?

nkkollaw 9y ago
Sorry, as the topic was Norway I was only talking about Europe. As for the language, I'm Italian working with devs and I've yet to find any dev that doesn't speak English fluently. Not the same for regular people, but not sure about Norway, either.
- foobiekr 9y ago
  I worked on site with a dev team in Sopot for a few weeks. While really nice guys, their English was not very good. The frigid temperatures by October were also an issue.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    You have to go to semi-major, techy cities. I'm in Wroclaw and it's perfect for startups, Warsaw for huge corporations. They even speak English among themselves.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

_delirium 9y ago

Maybe surprisingly, Norway is cheaper than SF for many people. (Not as cheap as Poland, of course.) Admittedly, a lot of consumer goods are more expensive in Norway than SF (especially alcohol). But rent is lower, even in Oslo, which is likely to be many people's biggest expense. Also, health insurance is included in the tax rate instead of a separate expense.

charlesdm 9y ago
Rent might be lower, but taxes are much higher, making it much harder to come up with the cash required to pay rent from salary. If you're not a first-timer, but someone with a previous exit and some capital under your belt, then there is the wealth tax to deal with.
- _delirium 9y ago
  If you're already rich, yeah, that's a different scenario, then you have a whole wealth-planning thing to think about. If we're talking about a startup founder making more in the neighborhood of low 6 figures, though, taxes are basically a wash between Norway and SF, and cheaper in Norway if you take into account that it includes health insurance while the US taxes don't. For me, what taxes I'd pay if I exited with a fabulously wealthy payday are more in the "Maserati problem" category, but ymmv. Putting in $100k into a Norwegian [1] and CA [2] tax calculator, for example, at that particular income they coincidentally come out almost identical: about $32k (~32% effective rate) in both cases. In Norway it's one central tax at the effective rate of 32%. In SF it's the sum of: 18% federal, 7.65% payroll, 6.3% state. [1] https://skattekalkulator.app.skatteetaten.no/ https://skattekalkulator.app.skatteetaten.no/ [2] https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator

dfee 9y ago

I would like to find a place that claims it has less than beautiful women. "Well, that's the news from Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

nkkollaw 9y ago
> I would like to find a place that claims it has less than beautiful women. I mean, it's preference. I'm from Italy and no matter what you might say or have heard, women up north and central Italy are not that sexy in general, often wearing jeans and hoddies and not taking good care of the way they look. They're also not that friendly, and as girlfriends, wives and in particular mothers are a pain in the ass. American girls you might find abroad or in major cities are usually sexy, take care of themselves, and are friendly. I was married to an American for a few years and lived in Miami for 3 years Turkish, Albanian, Romanian women--for instance--are definitely less attractive than other places I've been. As for Poland, they always look very nice, and are generally friendly. I'm currently dating a woman from Poland for 3 years. Of course, we're generalizing and I'm talking from my very limited experience, there are beautiful women everywhere (or ugly, for that matter), people's taste is different, etc. etc. I know that here when you go anywhere it's hard to find one I wouldn't date if I didn't have a girlfriend!
- mlevental 9y ago
  like color me impressed but this is some serious chauvinism. how come no one flags this or complains about it as vociferously as they do about sjws? in my opinion (not humble at all) this stuff should be treated exactly like if it were racist slurring.
  - nkkollaw 9y ago
    Oh, give me a break--seriously. It's a trend of our times to get offended for everything, to the point that one can't say anything without being politically incorrect and having somebody complain. Can I have an opinion and express it? I didn't say that a black person's brain is smaller or other dumb stuff like that, I just said that women look differently across the world, and I find some of those different features more attractive than others. You know, it's normal for others to say things you might not like or agree with, it doesn't mean you have to flag them.

jackaroe78 9y ago

And a pretty great bunch of 8-bit Atari enthusiasts to boot! (not a startup, but still really look forward to visiting someday)

balladeer 9y ago

How is the rent scene there? And the general cost of living - for a graduate student? Is English sufficient to live by as it is in say Germany and NL, at least for initial six months or so? Thinking of keeping it as an option for my MS.

siquick 9y ago
The vast majority of people in the Netherlands speak fluent English.

yazr 9y ago

Whats the English-speaking situation in these cities ? Can you get by with just English for the first year and the first 10 employees ?

nkkollaw 9y ago
Absolutely. I don't speak Polish and I was able to open a company, find an accountant, hire help.