3 ms·

> That is to say, he writes the worst English that I have ever encountered. It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the l

by trgv 9y ago

> That is to say, he writes the worst English that I have ever encountered. It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean-soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. This is vintage Mencken. My favorite is his obituary for William Jennings Bryan: http://history.msu.edu/hst203/files/2011/02/Mencken-In-Memoriam-WJB.pdf http://history.msu.edu/hst203/files/2011/02/Mencken-In-Memor... In my opinion, Hunter S. Thompson's obituary for Nixon is a direct descendant of that work: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/07/he-was-a-crook/308699/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/07/he-was-... I suppose, with Mencken, you should make reference to his racism (not to mention his strange views on Mathematics). I see him as a memorable writer. You can be a good writer and hold ignorant, offensive views.

coldtea 9y ago
>I suppose, with Mencken, you should make reference to his racism I think that the things worth making a reference for, in regards to a historical figure, is things that weren't shared by 60% or more of the population of his time.
- eli 9y ago
  His private writings are kinda racist even for the 1920s and 30s.
  - dtornabene 9y ago
    some of his public writings as well. His anti-semitism was known in his day, if I remember correctly.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    ...meh? Unless it was relevant to his impacts on society or the topic at hand, it isn't relevant. Save it for the Wikipedia page or biography, or when talking about those specific views of his
  - yesenadam 9y ago
    If I remember correctly, he was writing in US newspapers in favour of the US accepting Jewish refuguees from Nazi Germany before anyone. That initially wasn't popular.
    - barry-cotter 9y ago
      Initially? https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468 https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=100... > The sudden flood of emigrants created a major refugee crisis. President Franklin D. Roosevelt convened a conference in Evian, France, in July 1938. Despite the participation of delegates from 32 countries, including the United States, Great Britain, France, Canada, and Australia, only the Dominican Republic agreed to accept additional refugees. The plight of German-Jewish refugees, persecuted at home and unwanted abroad, is also illustrated by the voyage of the "St. Louis." During 1938–1939, in an program known as the Kindertransport, the United Kingdom admitted 10,000 unaccompanied Jewish children on an emergency basis. 1939 also marked the first time the United States filled its combined German-Austrian quota (which now included annexed Czechoslovakia). However, this limit did not come close to meeting the demand; by the end of June 1939, 309,000 German, Austrian, and Czech Jews had applied for the 27,000 places available under the quota.
      - yesenadam 9y ago
        Thanks for the info, it's a topic I know very little about. I'm totally in the dark what your one-word response is meant to mean though; I can think of several possible meanings, but no idea which you intended, if any. I found this online in a couple of googlings: As Gore Vidal noted, “Mencken was one of the first journalists to denounce the persecution of Jews in Germany at a time when the New York Times, say, was notoriously reticent.” While the Nazis were taking over vast portions of Europe, Mencken took FDR to task for his refusal to accept Jewish refugees into the U.S. It seems odd, to me, that a hardened anti-Semite would say “There is only one way to help the fugitives, and that is to find places for them in a country in which they can really live. Why shouldn’t the United States take in a couple hundred thousand of them, or even all of them?” In 1938, he blasted the hypocrisy of the countries attending the international Evian conference for their failure to open their doors to refugee Jews.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Compared to the public discourse, or to the equally private writings and discussions of the majority in the 20s and 30s? Give me access to their private discussions and writings, and I can get you quotes that point as 100% sexist, racist etc, any number of "liberal", "progressive" icons of today.
  - ataturk 9y ago
    It makes me weary to hear all these racist allegations--all that does is shut down discourse. Simply making a so-called racist statement these days or being accused of such is enough to shut down important discussion. Such things are not inherently hurtful or problematic, either. We can discuss these things as adults without some mental midget (can I say midget?) suggesting we can't speak lest we offend someone who isn't even present. Self-censorship is the gateway to tyranny. I have a friend from Nepal who complains bitterly about other "darkies" and I find it hilarious because even though I am open-minded and don't run from it, even I blush sometimes. His statements regarding the black community are frankly hilarious. I am a far more forgiving person that he is, or maybe just better trained to pretend that I am. He can get away with it because he's not a white dude, but it makes me wonder about how white people are being indoctrinated to not speak out and is that part of an overall strategy of demonizing white people, marginalizing them, and what the endgame looks like for whites. One need only look at places like South Africa to learn what happens to a white minority that is unable to stand up for itself without allegations of racism. I think what I'm trying to say is, the rules apply to all or to none and it's not just white people who are racist, despite the messaging. Violence is intolerable no matter which power group directs it. There is no justification for being violent against white people simply because "they deserve it for what they did in the past."
- trgv 9y ago
  These days it is often assumed that if you don't mention this kind of thing then you are tacitly endorsing it. I don't buy into that, but I don't mind playing along.

by trgv 9y ago

coldtea 9y ago

>I suppose, with Mencken, you should make reference to his racism I think that the things worth making a reference for, in regards to a historical figure, is things that weren't shared by 60% or more of the population of his time.

eli 9y ago
His private writings are kinda racist even for the 1920s and 30s.
- dtornabene 9y ago
  some of his public writings as well. His anti-semitism was known in his day, if I remember correctly.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  ...meh? Unless it was relevant to his impacts on society or the topic at hand, it isn't relevant. Save it for the Wikipedia page or biography, or when talking about those specific views of his
- yesenadam 9y ago
  If I remember correctly, he was writing in US newspapers in favour of the US accepting Jewish refuguees from Nazi Germany before anyone. That initially wasn't popular.
  - barry-cotter 9y ago
    Initially? https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005468 https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/mobile/en/article.php?ModuleId=100... > The sudden flood of emigrants created a major refugee crisis. President Franklin D. Roosevelt convened a conference in Evian, France, in July 1938. Despite the participation of delegates from 32 countries, including the United States, Great Britain, France, Canada, and Australia, only the Dominican Republic agreed to accept additional refugees. The plight of German-Jewish refugees, persecuted at home and unwanted abroad, is also illustrated by the voyage of the "St. Louis." During 1938–1939, in an program known as the Kindertransport, the United Kingdom admitted 10,000 unaccompanied Jewish children on an emergency basis. 1939 also marked the first time the United States filled its combined German-Austrian quota (which now included annexed Czechoslovakia). However, this limit did not come close to meeting the demand; by the end of June 1939, 309,000 German, Austrian, and Czech Jews had applied for the 27,000 places available under the quota.
    - yesenadam 9y ago
      Thanks for the info, it's a topic I know very little about. I'm totally in the dark what your one-word response is meant to mean though; I can think of several possible meanings, but no idea which you intended, if any. I found this online in a couple of googlings: As Gore Vidal noted, “Mencken was one of the first journalists to denounce the persecution of Jews in Germany at a time when the New York Times, say, was notoriously reticent.” While the Nazis were taking over vast portions of Europe, Mencken took FDR to task for his refusal to accept Jewish refugees into the U.S. It seems odd, to me, that a hardened anti-Semite would say “There is only one way to help the fugitives, and that is to find places for them in a country in which they can really live. Why shouldn’t the United States take in a couple hundred thousand of them, or even all of them?” In 1938, he blasted the hypocrisy of the countries attending the international Evian conference for their failure to open their doors to refugee Jews.
- coldtea 9y ago
  Compared to the public discourse, or to the equally private writings and discussions of the majority in the 20s and 30s? Give me access to their private discussions and writings, and I can get you quotes that point as 100% sexist, racist etc, any number of "liberal", "progressive" icons of today.
- ataturk 9y ago
  It makes me weary to hear all these racist allegations--all that does is shut down discourse. Simply making a so-called racist statement these days or being accused of such is enough to shut down important discussion. Such things are not inherently hurtful or problematic, either. We can discuss these things as adults without some mental midget (can I say midget?) suggesting we can't speak lest we offend someone who isn't even present. Self-censorship is the gateway to tyranny. I have a friend from Nepal who complains bitterly about other "darkies" and I find it hilarious because even though I am open-minded and don't run from it, even I blush sometimes. His statements regarding the black community are frankly hilarious. I am a far more forgiving person that he is, or maybe just better trained to pretend that I am. He can get away with it because he's not a white dude, but it makes me wonder about how white people are being indoctrinated to not speak out and is that part of an overall strategy of demonizing white people, marginalizing them, and what the endgame looks like for whites. One need only look at places like South Africa to learn what happens to a white minority that is unable to stand up for itself without allegations of racism. I think what I'm trying to say is, the rules apply to all or to none and it's not just white people who are racist, despite the messaging. Violence is intolerable no matter which power group directs it. There is no justification for being violent against white people simply because "they deserve it for what they did in the past."
trgv 9y ago
These days it is often assumed that if you don't mention this kind of thing then you are tacitly endorsing it. I don't buy into that, but I don't mind playing along.