6 ms·

Or just accept that emacs is objectively better software and switch to it? Evil mode is by far the most complete/true to vim vim emulation that exists, as far a

by s4vi0r 9y ago

Or just accept that emacs is objectively better software and switch to it? Evil mode is by far the most complete/true to vim vim emulation that exists, as far as I know.

tambourine_man 9y ago
> Or just accept that emacs is objectively better software and switch to it? Oh, come on. I thought the editor wars died with Usenet many years ago.
- Spivak 9y ago
  I think the fact that evil and spacemacs are en vogue right now changes the game a little bit. The debate doesn't seem to center around what editing method is best but which editor does 'Vim' best. There's a strong case that it's no longer Vim itself but projects like neovim or Emacs.
davidmr 9y ago
It's easier said than done. I decided to switch about a month ago, and after playing around with evil mode for a week, I gave it up in favor of emacs-std bindings. The core editor evil emulation was flawless. All my 20-year muscle memory commands just worked without a second thought. When going into other packages like org, magit, etc. I noticed that all their default bindings were emacsey as well (for obvious reasons). I realized that I would be forever mapping evil bindings into new packages every time I wanted to use something new, so I gave it up as a bad job and just bit the bullet and switched to stock emacs without evil. I'm like halfway through the learning curve (I hope!) and it's tough. I've always had the caps lock key mapped to Ctrl anyway, but I still feel like my pinkie is about to fall off. After using vi/elvis/vim for almost 25 years, I do admit that I like emacs, but "just switch" still means a period of remarkably reduced productivity to many. (Yes, I know that for any popular package someone has published evil mode bindings and use-package makes them trivial, but it's not the point.)
- kreetx 9y ago
  I did the same as you. Also took the learning as a challenge. It's also just so nice sometimes to start anew and learn something from zero. (I do also understand it takes time. But take it as motorcycle maintenance ;) EDIT: Also with emacs: you get synergies with the default mode of bash.
- dxepcion 9y ago
  have you looked into evil-collection? This is a collection of evil bindings for various emacs packages. https://github.com/jojojames/evil-collection https://github.com/jojojames/evil-collection
  - davidmr 9y ago
    Thanks; I have, but I thought I might as well try to do it right. If after another month or so, I still have "Emacs pinkie", I might just bite the bullet and go to evil mode.
- jpeloquin 9y ago
  Regarding moving Ctrl, my experience is that the pinky finger just isn't strong enough to handle the Ctrl key in emacs even when Ctrl is bound to caps lock. I think it's more comfortable to swap Ctrl with Alt (or whatever key is adjacent to the spacebar) so the thumbs can be used for Ctrl. This is beneficial even in other software, since Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, and Ctrl+X are pretty common.
mixedCase 9y ago
And yet the remaining 10% makes me want to go on a killing spree every time I try switching to it, while the remaining 10% of IntelliJ or VSCode seems perfectly user-friendly to me to tolerate. I'd rather just port any possibly interesting features to (Neo)vim rather than having to deal with all the baggage that comes with Emacs. And this is the conclusion I make after many attempts at switching over the years--I just cannot stomach its way of doing things.

by s4vi0r 9y ago

Or just accept that emacs is objectively better software and switch to it? Evil mode is by far the most complete/true to vim vim emulation that exists, as far as I know.

tambourine_man 9y ago

> Or just accept that emacs is objectively better software and switch to it? Oh, come on. I thought the editor wars died with Usenet many years ago.

Spivak 9y ago
I think the fact that evil and spacemacs are en vogue right now changes the game a little bit. The debate doesn't seem to center around what editing method is best but which editor does 'Vim' best. There's a strong case that it's no longer Vim itself but projects like neovim or Emacs.

davidmr 9y ago

It's easier said than done. I decided to switch about a month ago, and after playing around with evil mode for a week, I gave it up in favor of emacs-std bindings. The core editor evil emulation was flawless. All my 20-year muscle memory commands just worked without a second thought. When going into other packages like org, magit, etc. I noticed that all their default bindings were emacsey as well (for obvious reasons). I realized that I would be forever mapping evil bindings into new packages every time I wanted to use something new, so I gave it up as a bad job and just bit the bullet and switched to stock emacs without evil. I'm like halfway through the learning curve (I hope!) and it's tough. I've always had the caps lock key mapped to Ctrl anyway, but I still feel like my pinkie is about to fall off. After using vi/elvis/vim for almost 25 years, I do admit that I like emacs, but "just switch" still means a period of remarkably reduced productivity to many. (Yes, I know that for any popular package someone has published evil mode bindings and use-package makes them trivial, but it's not the point.)

kreetx 9y ago
I did the same as you. Also took the learning as a challenge. It's also just so nice sometimes to start anew and learn something from zero. (I do also understand it takes time. But take it as motorcycle maintenance ;) EDIT: Also with emacs: you get synergies with the default mode of bash.
dxepcion 9y ago
have you looked into evil-collection? This is a collection of evil bindings for various emacs packages. https://github.com/jojojames/evil-collection https://github.com/jojojames/evil-collection
- davidmr 9y ago
  Thanks; I have, but I thought I might as well try to do it right. If after another month or so, I still have "Emacs pinkie", I might just bite the bullet and go to evil mode.
jpeloquin 9y ago
Regarding moving Ctrl, my experience is that the pinky finger just isn't strong enough to handle the Ctrl key in emacs even when Ctrl is bound to caps lock. I think it's more comfortable to swap Ctrl with Alt (or whatever key is adjacent to the spacebar) so the thumbs can be used for Ctrl. This is beneficial even in other software, since Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, and Ctrl+X are pretty common.

mixedCase 9y ago

And yet the remaining 10% makes me want to go on a killing spree every time I try switching to it, while the remaining 10% of IntelliJ or VSCode seems perfectly user-friendly to me to tolerate. I'd rather just port any possibly interesting features to (Neo)vim rather than having to deal with all the baggage that comes with Emacs. And this is the conclusion I make after many attempts at switching over the years--I just cannot stomach its way of doing things.