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Same. Recently I had to do some web work and it is so daunting. Any tutorial for a given technology asks you to use a bunch of other tooling dependency that you

Same. Recently I had to do some web work and it is so daunting. Any tutorial for a given technology asks you to use a bunch of other tooling dependency that you don't understand. It's just mixed up dependencies everywhere even for little example projects. Something like create-react-app that is supposed to help you learn react. Set it up and just look at node_modules. Just a shit ton of dependencies and you have no idea what any of them do. All this sort of scaffolding set up that you're supposed to ignore. I just can't learn that way.

expertentipp 9y ago
> Set it up and just look at node_modules. Just a shit ton of dependencies and you have no idea what any of them do. All this sort of scaffolding set up that you're supposed to ignore. Yeah, good luck going through legal/license compliance audit in any serious company doing software.
- zdragnar 9y ago
  Funny, I've worked with multiple companies and their lawyers who were very serious about license compliance and what not. It took all of fifteen minutes to prepare a spreadsheet of our licenses (planned, anyway). Not a complaint from any of them, other than an "oh, that's more than I'm used to seeing." The one sticking point was webpack 1; they had some dependencies with unlicensed dependencies. Fortunately, we were already leaning towards browserify anyway at the time. Webpack 2+ resolved those issues.
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    Fair enough. Now imagine that your product or service is gaining popularity on the market where Google or Facebook consider you a competition.
    - deecewan 9y ago
      They will buy you first.
      - expertentipp 9y ago
        Acquisition by Big4 is not everyone's dream, imagine.
    - onion2k 9y ago
      The idea that you should consider "what to do if your company grows to be a competitor to Google" in your technology decisions is quite frankly some of the worst bikeshedding I've ever seen. That question shouldn't even enter in to the process at the start. If that happens, and it probably won't, but if it does you will have a team capable of dealing with the issue by then.
    - zdragnar 9y ago
      Considering that both Google and Facebook are heavily invested in this scene with Angular and React, there's not much to imagine. They're both fine with lots of licenses.
- vanilla_nut 9y ago
  Security is more of my concern: these things change constantly and versions can even be completely replaced, so even if you convinced someone to do a full security audit (and they checked all the dependencies of the dependency, etc. etc.) I still don't think I'd feel entirely secure.
  - expertentipp 9y ago
    > checked all the dependencies of the dependency Is it even possible? I once checked perhaps at the depth 5-6 and it reached maybe thousands of items. At some point though there were many repeated dependencies, sometimes on different versions of the same module.

expertentipp 9y ago

> Set it up and just look at node_modules. Just a shit ton of dependencies and you have no idea what any of them do. All this sort of scaffolding set up that you're supposed to ignore. Yeah, good luck going through legal/license compliance audit in any serious company doing software.

zdragnar 9y ago
Funny, I've worked with multiple companies and their lawyers who were very serious about license compliance and what not. It took all of fifteen minutes to prepare a spreadsheet of our licenses (planned, anyway). Not a complaint from any of them, other than an "oh, that's more than I'm used to seeing." The one sticking point was webpack 1; they had some dependencies with unlicensed dependencies. Fortunately, we were already leaning towards browserify anyway at the time. Webpack 2+ resolved those issues.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  Fair enough. Now imagine that your product or service is gaining popularity on the market where Google or Facebook consider you a competition.
  - deecewan 9y ago
    They will buy you first.
    - expertentipp 9y ago
      Acquisition by Big4 is not everyone's dream, imagine.
  - onion2k 9y ago
    The idea that you should consider "what to do if your company grows to be a competitor to Google" in your technology decisions is quite frankly some of the worst bikeshedding I've ever seen. That question shouldn't even enter in to the process at the start. If that happens, and it probably won't, but if it does you will have a team capable of dealing with the issue by then.
  - zdragnar 9y ago
    Considering that both Google and Facebook are heavily invested in this scene with Angular and React, there's not much to imagine. They're both fine with lots of licenses.
vanilla_nut 9y ago
Security is more of my concern: these things change constantly and versions can even be completely replaced, so even if you convinced someone to do a full security audit (and they checked all the dependencies of the dependency, etc. etc.) I still don't think I'd feel entirely secure.
- expertentipp 9y ago
  > checked all the dependencies of the dependency Is it even possible? I once checked perhaps at the depth 5-6 and it reached maybe thousands of items. At some point though there were many repeated dependencies, sometimes on different versions of the same module.