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Lab meat to transform meat industry in 2021
- shaunxcode 9y agowhat is the holdup? how are we not just throwing government dollars at this industry??
- lucidguppy 9y agoSomebody is throwing money at the politicians.
- jdavis703 9y agoBecause a headline like "Lab grown meat kills hundreds" could set the industry back a century. There's also the fact that ranchers, pig farmers, meat packers and the rest of BigAg don't want their businesses disrupted. And then add in the anti food-tech people (the ones who complain about Soylent et. al.) and combine that with the anti-vegeterian folks and you have a whole lot of opposition. As a current vegetarian I'm excited to start eating these lab grown meats, but I also want the industry to do it safely and intelligently.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- marricks 9y agoI think throwing money would help, especially with testing. It’s not like thrown money needs to go just to scaling....
- kemiller 9y agoComplaining about Soylent per se doesn’t make you anti-food tech generally. Soylent has legitimate serious issues. But I agree with you that we need to approach it sensibly.
- pault 9y agoCould you link me to some of those serious issues? I've been using soylent to save myself the effort of scrounging for breakfast and lunch lately.
- jdavis703 9y agoThey've had some ingredient mislabeling issues and also some reports of people suffering from algal oil allergies (it's a novel food additive, and it turns out that while it has certain health benefits, a lot of people can't process it nicely). They have since removed the algal oil from their newer formulations, and hopefully have better processes around labeling so they don't make that same mistake again.
- whb07 9y agobecause a government bureaucrat does not have the experience/skill/knowledge to invest in such projects. That is what the private investors and markets are for.
- hunta2097 9y agoAnimal farming is such a historical constant, I wonder what the unintended consequences of artificial meat are? How does this ride with the trend for more organic and natural produce? Will artificial meat only be a suitable alternative in cheap or fast foods?
- JoeAltmaier 9y agoAnd my favorite: is lab meat vegetarian? is it vegan? Its certainly not cut from some animal, and nothing got killed to obtain it.
- Havoc 9y agoIt is whatever the marketing department says it is.
- KitDuncan 9y agoIt depends on whether Fetal Bovine Serum is used to grow the meat. If it is, it's neither vegan or vegetarian.
- lostlogin 9y agoAnd what rotted into the soil the vegetables grew in. If it’s far back enough in the process does it matter? It may/may not be relevant, I’m vegetarian.
- nkoren 9y agoVegetarian of 36 years here: I won't have any qualms about eating it.
- tuna-piano 9y agoAnd this is where vegeterianism/veganism can turn into a religion. Where people start looking for rules as opposed to using logic of why something should be this way. It actually reminds me a lot of how very observant Jews treat the rules for Kosher food. If you're a vegetarian for ethical or environmental reasons, I'd think lab grown meat is probably totally ok to eat. If you're a vegetarian for health reasons, not sure why you can't eat meat a few meals a month?
- nkkollaw 9y agoI don't know how to feel about this. I'm definitely worried that no one knows what weird diseases this could cause years from now, and if any research pointing to cancer or other problems has been kept secret (like it's been done before in so many cases). For sure, intensive farming is bad for everybody (besides the farmers, perhaps), and anything that will reduce it is good news IMHO. As for how I'd feel eating lab meat, we only eat meat because most of us haven't seen how animals are kept, what they're fed, and how they're slaughtered (I have at my dad's organic pig farm and it's nothing pretty--and I can't imagine how intensive production looks). So, I guess meat coming from a lab is just as gross/weird as the above, I would probably try it and even get used to it. I'm sure vegetarians will love it--or at least the ones that do it for the animals--as they'll finally be able to eat meat, which is unarguably personal preference but IMHO about 100 times better-tasting than imitation meat (like those burgers you buy at the grocery store). I suspect if it's cheaper I'll get it served at some fast food restaurant, so I'll have a chance to try it.
- lprubin 9y agoIf you're ever in NYC, let me know. I'll take you on a tour of vegan cuisine that will knock your socks off.
- nkkollaw 9y agoI'm in Poland--otherwise I'd love to, but I'm not saying it's not good, just that I don't like it. I can take you to some BBQ place that will take _your_ socks off, too. You know, to each his own :-)
- lprubin 9y agoIf your only understanding of imitation meat is "those burgers you buy at the grocery store," then my point is that there is a whole world of imitation meat you haven't experienced. I think you're pre-maturely judging a whole genre of food.
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- mozumder 9y agoDo they include nerve cells or a nervous system? How "conscious" are these?
- Hasz 9y agoAs far as I'm aware, they're just culturing muscle tissue. There is no nervous system, and it is certainly not conscious.
- physcab 9y agoI’m a meat-eater but my wife is vegan. We’ve been following Impossible Foods for some time and got to finally try one of their burgers last month. As a meat eater who is vegan at home, I think it’s a decent alternative compared to other vegetarian meat-like products, in fact far superior. But it’s definitely not a replacement for the real thing. I have been pretty impressed with the steady innovation in vegetarian / vegan options that give me as good alternatives compared to non. For example, Miyokos cheese is incredible, and far better than any cheese I used to typically eat, and it’s dairy free. I used to eat Boca burgers when I’ve had to and they aren’t great. I’m excited for better options to come into the market.
- gnicholas 9y agoI was also underwhelmed by the Impossible Foods burger, which was a better imitation of meat than other patties, but not necessarily tastier. The bigger surprise to me was that Impossible Foods does not apparently control how restaurants prepare their burgers—in fact, the restaurant where I ate it even had an Impossible Foods chili. I would have expected IF to put pretty close restrictions around how you cook and present their foods, to make sure that people don't have a bad experience and assume it's the fault of the "meat".
- jkarneges 9y agoChili, interesting. I tried breaking up a Beyond Burger patty so I could use it as ground beef filling for burritos/pasta. It was pretty much a disaster. Even when cooking the burger normally there is very little room for error, compared to real beef. I think the end-game for these companies should be to produce a chuck substitute that is malleable rather than being restricted to patties. And of course it shouldn't ruin easily.
- jdavis703 9y agoImpossible and Beyond really aren't comparable. I prefer Beyond, because the Impossible tastes and feels just a bit too much like meat for my tastes. The Impossible burger also crumbles way better. I haven't tried to crumble the Beyond burger, but I have a strong feeling it wouldn't end nicely.
- FreeRadical 9y agoHopefully this will positively impact antibiotic usage.
- ourmandave 9y agoApropos to nothing, pigs outnumber people in Iowa 7 to 1 (21.2M hogs vs 3.1M people).
- asdjasldkjkljd 9y agoThese are very interesting in the context of getting people to eat less meat, but as someone who hasn't eaten meat for a few years — I really have little desire to even try one of these. I just don't care for meat anymore. It's funny how we can mold our preferences. I used to miss it, and now I'm just kind of turned off by it.
- tuna-piano 9y agoImagine a future, lets say in 2040, where lab grown meat is cheap and tasty. -Will future children look back at our current acceptance of the treatment/killing of animals like we look at societal acceptance of slavery? The pictures/videos of some of our factory farms are unbelievable. -Will laws be imposed for the killing of mentally capable animals such as pigs and cows? Some states already outlaw killing/eating certain animals (dogs+cats)[1], and cruelty to animals is illegal almost everywhere. But what is a more cruel punishment than death? I'd rather be tortured and then live the rest of my life than be murdered today. -We can all live perfectly happy, long lives without killing animals today... so why is it okay to kill them today just for our own enjoyment? (I'm not a vegetarian but am ethically conflicted) [1]https://inhabitat.com/killing-dogs-and-cats-for-meat-is-still-legal-in-44-u-s-states/ https://inhabitat.com/killing-dogs-and-cats-for-meat-is-stil...
- mrkstu 9y agoQuite simply because there is not ethical imperative to stop- and its about nourishment rather than just enjoyment. Do we have an ethical imperative to stop cats from killing birds? All complex animal life on this planet consumes other living cells in order to survive, it is just a matter of scale and type. This is especially true for animals that exist so that we may consume them. Hundreds of millions of chicken live only so that we may be nourished- similarly for cows, sheep and so forth. Raising them in a minimally harsh and 'humane' environment can be an ethical good but that their lives are shortened by our 'harvesting' process is irrelevant, since they exist only due to that need to begin with. Now killing an animal and discarding the resultant bounty- that is unethical and wrong, unless needed to ameliorate some other harm.
- exit 9y ago> Raising them in a minimally harsh and 'humane' environment can be an ethical good but that their lives are shortened by our 'harvesting' process is irrelevant, since they exist only due to that need to begin with. are you saying it's always preferable to create a life, as long as its conditions pass some threshold of being humane? many would disagree. you might value minimising suffering above maximising happiness, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism
- kjksf 9y agoThis is a very thin article. Wired has a few in-depth articles on the subject: - https://www.wired.com/2016/10/nerds-cattle-food-technology-will-save-world/ https://www.wired.com/2016/10/nerds-cattle-food-technology-w... - https://www.wired.com/story/the-impossible-burger/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-impossible-burger/ - https://www.wired.com/2016/07/lab-grown-meat-coming-win-haters/ https://www.wired.com/2016/07/lab-grown-meat-coming-win-hate... - https://www.wired.com/story/navigating-the-uncanny-valley-of-food/ https://www.wired.com/story/navigating-the-uncanny-valley-of... The reality is that currently lab grown meat is extremely expensive (thousands of dollars per pound) and we don't even know if we can bring the cost down to a level competitive with cows. Impossible Foods, however, is already making an impact. They make "burger" meat purely from plants by mixing thing up and adding fake "blood". They're already shipping (there are 8 restaurants in SF alone that offer their burgers, https://www.impossiblefoods.com/locations/ https://www.impossiblefoods.com/locations/). People seem to like their stuff (reportedly in some restaurants their burgers outsell the real beef burgers). They just finished their first large scale factory (1 million pounds per year) and are ramping up distribution across US. Cost-wise, they're already comparable with organic beef and there's a clear path to make them cheaper than beef by increasing the scale. In terms of impact and transforming meat industry, Impossible Foods seems to be in much better position.
- gnicholas 9y ago> Cost-wise, they're [Impossible Foods] already comparable with organic beef and there's a clear path to make them cheaper than beef by increasing the scale. We buy organic ground beef for around $7/lb at Costco. A restaurant I talked with said they pay $11/lb for Impossible Foods "meat". Do you consider these prices to be comparable? Or are you aware of restaurants paying much less than $11/lb? To be clear, I understand prices of IF will come down—I'm just trying to get clarity on current pricing, since a 40% price difference is material for restaurants.
- rflrob 9y agoOnce you've established that people are willing to pay a $2-5/lb premium to ensure that their meat is organic, I think another similar premium for non-meat meat is reasonable to call "comparable", especially when the alternative is thousands of dollars per pound.
- freeflight 9y agoUnless this stuff is cost-competitive with the cheapest meat out there, it won't change anything. The vast majority of people still buy their food solely based on what's most affordable, with little to no room to account for "ethical reasons" beyond that. In that regard, "organic" or "ethical" often amounts to paying double if sometimes quadruple the price of "regular" products. If artificial meat can undercut regularly produced meat, price wise (without tasting too bad), then that could be a real game changer, but until that happens it will remain only interesting to the fringe demographic of people with too much disposable income. Which isn't that big of a demographic and as such will never have the potential to enact the desired environmental impact change.
- codetwelve 9y agoYes, everything is expensive in the beginning until it's not. We knew this of things like solar energy and other renewables. It needs to be worked on, early adopters will support it then it will take off when the price starts to drop and production goes up. I dislike comments like this that seem to just be dismissive of a new technology without adding any real insight. Everyone knows things are expensive in the beginning so what's the point of saying it's not going to work unless it's cheaper than real meat. It's really obvious. Furthermore, oil has tried to undercut their prices to fend off other forms of energy (specially renewables), people and countries are still choosing renewables as a way to the future because it makes sense. An alternative to raising livestock with clean meat is something that also makes sense and I think quite a lot of people are eager to proceed with this alternative.
- freeflight 9y ago> Yes, everything is expensive in the beginning until it's not. Some things will always stay more expensive than their cheaper alternatives, case in point: Organic farmed meat vs mass farmed. The former will always stay more expensive than the later because you can produce that much more meat on the same space, you can produce it cheaper by feeding lesser quality food to the animals. Is the resulting meat a "better meat"? No, but it is the cheaper meat and that's still what the vast majority of consumers are looking for. > I dislike comments like this that seem to just be dismissive of a new technology without adding any real insight. It wasn't meant to be dismissive about the technology, merely pointing out that as long as this ain't cost competitive it will just be another niche solution for the "Let's feel better about ourselves by throwing money around" crowd and we already have plenty of those. Silicon Valley/SF is a microcosmos on its own, some things might work there, yet rarely do these things scale up outside of that niche-customer market, but that's exactly the kind of solution we need if we want large parts of humanity to change their ways about how they treat animals and animal products.
- milansm 9y agoWhat I look forward to the most is it will make majority of the farmland obsolete (land is mostly used for growing food for animals anyway). As someone who's living in the area (in Eastern Europe) where there's no decent forest in 100km radius, due to everything being turned into farmland, I can't wait for the era when forests will reclaim those lands. When I cross a bridge on Danube and take a look from the hight (the bridge is quite big and tall) at the countryside I live in, all I can see is a farmland. And I can't help but imagine that only 200 years ago there were forests there, as far as you can see. But once the meat is grown in the lab, I hope that it would stop making financial sense to farm the land for animal food.
- jkarneges 9y agoWhat about lab dairy? It's completely counterintuitive, but factory farming practices for dairy are arguably as bad if not worse than what is done for meat, and dairy even supports the meat industry (veal). I know there are fake options like Daiya, but it's just not the same.