4 ms·

This article is far too hyperbolic. Instead of calmly laying out the privacy implications and realizing people can choose where to draw the line for themselves,

This article is far too hyperbolic. Instead of calmly laying out the privacy implications and realizing people can choose where to draw the line for themselves, it draws the line for everyone. It's my decision whether I find it worthwhile to accept an MDM policy, not the author's. Yes, I know the line is drawn by humans and not technology—but I am comfortable with and trust those humans. I accept that trying to achieve privacy from my employer through technical means is essentially a losing battle. It would mean taking multiple laptops on all (frequent) work trips, never checking anything personal at work, and not being able to effectively check my work from home. Plus even if I had that full isolation they already can technically access much of my personal data since they host my email and browser. The second I lose faith in the security and privacy values of my company, I would leave—but trying to technically limit myself seems functionally impossible.

jakobegger 9y ago
The most important part is that MDM can install VPN settings and root SSL certs on your phone, allowing your employer to intercept all traffic to and from your phone (unless the apps use SSL certificate pinning or end-to-end encryption). People probably don‘t expect their employer to be able to intercept eg. their Facebook messages or private email. And it‘s trivial to protect against this: Just use your own device for personal stuff. You probably don‘t need to bring a second laptop on a work trip, just bring your own phone or tablet for stuff that you don‘t want someone at your company to track...
- morgante 9y ago
  I agree that people should know the implications, but I know them and am essentially comfortable with the tradeoffs. After all, I already share much of my browser history via Chrome anyways. > And it‘s trivial to protect against this: Just use your own device for personal stuff. I don't consider that trivial. Switching from work email back to personal email, or checking Facebook while coding is very common for me. More importantly, I don't particularly care if my employer has the ability to track my activity.
  - jakobegger 9y ago
    If you check Facebook while coding, your productivity might also profit if you started using a separate device for that :)
    - morgante 9y ago
      Thanks for the moralizing point, which is entirely what I objected to in the original article. How I manage my personal productivity is my prerogative. Personally I find that I fluctuate between periods of intense focus (where hours of coding pass without me even noticing) and times where my brain is tired and I need a thoughtless distraction.
- willstrafach 9y ago
  Very important detail regarding iOS: With the BYOD mode of MDM (not "Supervised Mode" used for company-owned devices), as I understand it, there will be a dialog box which appears on the device and asks you to approve the installation of such configuration profiles.
eadmund 9y ago
> It's my decision whether I find it worthwhile to accept an MDM policy, not the author's. Well, yes, of course it's your decision. But I think his point stands: if you exercise your right to accept MDM on a personal device, you've made a wrong decision. > I accept that trying to achieve privacy from my employer through technical means is essentially a losing battle. It would mean taking multiple laptops on all (frequent) work trips, never checking anything personal at work, and not being able to effectively check my work from home. That's a bit strong. On work trips I'll sometimes bring my personal laptop, but even more often leave it at home. I don't need a personal laptop during my downtime — there's a whole big world out there! — but it can be nice. On personal trips I'll almost always leave my work laptop behind. Why would I work on a vacation? Yes, you should never check anything personal at work. If you do, your employer is completely within his power (definitely) & rights (in many jurisdictions) to read your communications, store your passwords &c. Just Don't Do It™. You can effectively check your work from home with your work laptop. > Plus even if I had that full isolation they already can technically access much of my personal data since they host my email and browser. Only if you use your work email & browser for personal purposes. Don't do that! Seriously, don't. Just don't. Sooner or later it will bite you, badly. Work systems are the property of your employer; personal systems are your property. Work systems are the responsibility of your employer; personal systems are your responsibility. What your work wants, may not align 100% with what you want; what you want, may not align 100% with what your work wants. Don't cross the streams!
- morgante 9y ago
  > if you exercise your right to accept MDM on a personal device, you've made a wrong decision. Only if I share your exact same values. You cannot tell me my decision is "wrong" when I know the consequences but decide that I'm comfortable with the risks. Your response, and the original article, are incredibly patronizing. > Yes, you should never check anything personal at work. That's your view. Stop applying your personal views to my own. Yes I know my employer can store my information and read my communications, but personally I don't care at all that my employer could read my texts with my girlfriend. > Only if you use your work email & browser for personal purposes. I work at Google. Of course I don't use my work account or browser profile for personal purposes, but at the end of the day my employer hosts my personal email and makes my personal browser. Given the vast amount of personal data which we have, I think trying to use technical measures to limit my exposure is foolhardy: my faith in privacy lies with the policies and actions of my fellow employees. If that faith ever falters, I have far bigger problems than the occasional Facebook message sent at work.

jakobegger 9y ago

The most important part is that MDM can install VPN settings and root SSL certs on your phone, allowing your employer to intercept all traffic to and from your phone (unless the apps use SSL certificate pinning or end-to-end encryption). People probably don‘t expect their employer to be able to intercept eg. their Facebook messages or private email. And it‘s trivial to protect against this: Just use your own device for personal stuff. You probably don‘t need to bring a second laptop on a work trip, just bring your own phone or tablet for stuff that you don‘t want someone at your company to track...

morgante 9y ago
I agree that people should know the implications, but I know them and am essentially comfortable with the tradeoffs. After all, I already share much of my browser history via Chrome anyways. > And it‘s trivial to protect against this: Just use your own device for personal stuff. I don't consider that trivial. Switching from work email back to personal email, or checking Facebook while coding is very common for me. More importantly, I don't particularly care if my employer has the ability to track my activity.
- jakobegger 9y ago
  If you check Facebook while coding, your productivity might also profit if you started using a separate device for that :)
  - morgante 9y ago
    Thanks for the moralizing point, which is entirely what I objected to in the original article. How I manage my personal productivity is my prerogative. Personally I find that I fluctuate between periods of intense focus (where hours of coding pass without me even noticing) and times where my brain is tired and I need a thoughtless distraction.
willstrafach 9y ago
Very important detail regarding iOS: With the BYOD mode of MDM (not "Supervised Mode" used for company-owned devices), as I understand it, there will be a dialog box which appears on the device and asks you to approve the installation of such configuration profiles.

eadmund 9y ago

> It's my decision whether I find it worthwhile to accept an MDM policy, not the author's. Well, yes, of course it's your decision. But I think his point stands: if you exercise your right to accept MDM on a personal device, you've made a wrong decision. > I accept that trying to achieve privacy from my employer through technical means is essentially a losing battle. It would mean taking multiple laptops on all (frequent) work trips, never checking anything personal at work, and not being able to effectively check my work from home. That's a bit strong. On work trips I'll sometimes bring my personal laptop, but even more often leave it at home. I don't need a personal laptop during my downtime — there's a whole big world out there! — but it can be nice. On personal trips I'll almost always leave my work laptop behind. Why would I work on a vacation? Yes, you should never check anything personal at work. If you do, your employer is completely within his power (definitely) & rights (in many jurisdictions) to read your communications, store your passwords &c. Just Don't Do It™. You can effectively check your work from home with your work laptop. > Plus even if I had that full isolation they already can technically access much of my personal data since they host my email and browser. Only if you use your work email & browser for personal purposes. Don't do that! Seriously, don't. Just don't. Sooner or later it will bite you, badly. Work systems are the property of your employer; personal systems are your property. Work systems are the responsibility of your employer; personal systems are your responsibility. What your work wants, may not align 100% with what you want; what you want, may not align 100% with what your work wants. Don't cross the streams!

morgante 9y ago
> if you exercise your right to accept MDM on a personal device, you've made a wrong decision. Only if I share your exact same values. You cannot tell me my decision is "wrong" when I know the consequences but decide that I'm comfortable with the risks. Your response, and the original article, are incredibly patronizing. > Yes, you should never check anything personal at work. That's your view. Stop applying your personal views to my own. Yes I know my employer can store my information and read my communications, but personally I don't care at all that my employer could read my texts with my girlfriend. > Only if you use your work email & browser for personal purposes. I work at Google. Of course I don't use my work account or browser profile for personal purposes, but at the end of the day my employer hosts my personal email and makes my personal browser. Given the vast amount of personal data which we have, I think trying to use technical measures to limit my exposure is foolhardy: my faith in privacy lies with the policies and actions of my fellow employees. If that faith ever falters, I have far bigger problems than the occasional Facebook message sent at work.