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I agree it's stupid (and there's no question this move won't survive in the long term) but there's one thing to keep in mind: BMW's iDrive is better than CarPl

I agree it's stupid (and there's no question this move won't survive in the long term) but there's one thing to keep in mind: BMW's iDrive is better than CarPlay. As someone who very much likes Apple's current iOS and Mac UI, this feels absurd to say but iDrive is just that good. Of course choice always preferable, but unless CarPlay is extended to allow me to use Waze maps, I can't imagine why I'd ever use it. Unlike CarPlay, iDrive has a well-resolved, tactile and customisable physical interface. It's just better suited for someone who's driving. Tesla doesn't support CarPlay at all, but you don't hear about hoards of people boycotting Telsa: because their system is also better than CarPlay. (Though at least BMW gives you the option, even if they do so in a weirdly customer-hostile way.) The only clear advantage of CarPlay is that the software is being continually updated and improved. Perhaps when your 2018 model is seven years old, the features of CarPlay in iOS 16 running on your iPhone Xs Edition would be preferred. And by then BMW will have been shamed into aborting this annual fee joke.

Klathmon 9y ago
Now I don't know about carplay specifically, but Android auto works great even without a touchscreen, giving you the tactile feel that you want, and there is no reason why BMW can't extend the customizable physical buttons to work for functions in AA. And Tesla does get shit for not supporting either, quite frequently. Not to "boycott" levels, but it has absolutely affected my last car purchase, and the fact that they don't support it makes me want the brand a lot less.
- tacomonstrous 9y ago
  I installed Android Auto on my Mazda after someone on a previous HN thread convinced me to, and now I can't go back to using the native system. It makes such a huge difference, and works perfectly with the physical controls.
  - Yhippa 9y ago
    How were you able to do that? Was this made available through Mazda?
    - neogodless 9y ago
      https://mazdatweaks.com https://mazdatweaks.com
    - tacomonstrous 9y ago
      It's unofficial, from the link that the other commenter posted, but works well enough, and takes about 5 minutes to install if you have a USB drive lying around.
  - DannyBee 9y ago
    As far as i'm aware, there are no Mazda's directly that support android auto at this point in time. They keep claiming they will, but they haven't made it happen yet. (I looked at various 2018 models just last week, and if you go to various mazda forums on the internet, it's a constant topic of discussion) The only way i'm aware of to get Android Auto on a Mazda would be to replace the head unit.
    - izacus 9y ago
      Someone built a binary that can be pushed on the Mazda Connect system (it's just Linux running a web browser underneath).
    - tacomonstrous 9y ago
      It's an unofficial mod, available at mazdatweaks.com
- Reason077 9y ago
  "Tesla does get shit for not supporting either, quite frequently." Yup. As cool as Tesla's giant touchscreen is, the UX just doesn't compare to CarPlay. Much of this is down to Siri, which mostly eliminates the (potentially dangerous) need to hunt around in menus/touch controls for audio and navigation functions while you're driving. No doubt Android Auto has this same advantage. Tesla's voice controls are a joke in comparison.
kalleboo 9y ago
The lack of support for third-party mapping/navigation apps is what keeps me from caring about CarPlay. I'd sooner just buy an iPad mini LTE and bolt it to the center console.
- encoderer 9y ago
  I’ve switched to Apple maps for this reason. Totally satisfied.
  - kalleboo 9y ago
    Where I live even Google Maps isn't very good, and Apple Maps is a joke. Local competitors are miles ahead at car navigation. E.g. around here Google Maps doesn't seem to know about road closures (ones that have been closed for a year and a half after an earthquake) whereas local competitors will tell you "in 2 km, due to construction the road will reduce to one lane"
ak217 9y ago
> Unlike CarPlay, iDrive has a well-resolved, tactile and customisable physical interface. Several manufacturers (Audi for example) offer tactile, context-sensitive clickwheel and touchpad controls for CarPlay and Android Auto. Those function as well or better than iDrive, and have the long-term advantage of Apple and Google supporting them, against which BMW can't hope to compete. (CarPlay restricting third-party apps is definitely a huge problem though.) > Tesla doesn't support CarPlay at all, but you don't hear about hoards of people boycotting Telsa: because their system is also better than CarPlay. Tesla's system is not better than CarPlay with tactile controls. The reason people are not boycotting Tesla is that they are overlooking the enormous issues with their interface due to superior EV technology.
- sjwright 9y ago
  Controlling Android Auto and CarPlay with car controls is like operating a home theatre with a Logitech remote: it's great if you remember how third-party physical buttons map to the software. The superiority of iDrive isn't readily apparent until you live with it for a few weeks and you realise how straightforward the controls are for frequent tasks, and how the quick-access buttons can turn complex UI dives into one-button macros. I love having physical buttons for "drive home", for "open my GPS address book" button, for "stop nagivating", for "call my wife", for "show trip data" and "show program details for the current DAB radio station".
  - izacus 9y ago
    All that superiority of iDrive immediately disappears when you notice that you can't even start Podcast playback in PocketCasts on Android over it. While you can on Android Auto. Same goes for Waze and other important services BMW will never upgrade (or will charge ludicrous amount of money and demand dealer visit to upgrade).
    - sjwright 9y ago
      I agree about Waze, and I said so in my OP. And you can’t play Angry Birds on iDrive either so wow it sucks.
innagadadavida 9y ago
It’s not just about the software getting updated. Most people have everything on their phone. It knows about the next appointment and can seamlessly open maps with the location. Same thing about my music. While the native car interface is better, it will not survive as phone is my primary device. Also the car companies charge for their subpar navigation, updating those maps is another story altogether...
afpx 9y ago
Are you serious? I just sold my 2016 X6 because idrive was so bad. I prefer carplay many times over. I have been a dedicated bmw owner for 15 years, but lately I’ve been thinking they’re losing their charm. CarPlay and it’s supported apps will only get better. I can’t see how the auto industry will be able to keep up or even justify the additional expense for their info-tainment systems. Edit: ok - I didn’t sell it only because of idrive. My driving habits and needs changed. But, it was definitely a factor in not replacing it with another bmw.
- apta 9y ago
  What did you replace the X6 with?
- leesalminen 9y ago
  I’ve been pretty happy with Audi MMI interface (and has CarPlay sans subscription).
- sjwright 9y ago
  I’m completely serious. Touch screens in cars are a joke and a safety hazard. The only people who want them are bad drivers and bad gadget enthusiasts.
chc 9y ago
> Tesla doesn't support CarPlay at all, but you don't hear about hoards of people boycotting Telsa Because that isn't mistreatment; it's just not offering a feature. Doing something in a bad way can be more objectionable than not doing it at all. It's a bit like if you were to aay, "Yes, Restaurant A's soup consistently gives people food poisoning, but you don't hear about people boycotting Restaurant B when they don't even offer soup."

Klathmon 9y ago

Now I don't know about carplay specifically, but Android auto works great even without a touchscreen, giving you the tactile feel that you want, and there is no reason why BMW can't extend the customizable physical buttons to work for functions in AA. And Tesla does get shit for not supporting either, quite frequently. Not to "boycott" levels, but it has absolutely affected my last car purchase, and the fact that they don't support it makes me want the brand a lot less.

tacomonstrous 9y ago
I installed Android Auto on my Mazda after someone on a previous HN thread convinced me to, and now I can't go back to using the native system. It makes such a huge difference, and works perfectly with the physical controls.
- Yhippa 9y ago
  How were you able to do that? Was this made available through Mazda?
  - neogodless 9y ago
    https://mazdatweaks.com https://mazdatweaks.com
  - tacomonstrous 9y ago
    It's unofficial, from the link that the other commenter posted, but works well enough, and takes about 5 minutes to install if you have a USB drive lying around.
- DannyBee 9y ago
  As far as i'm aware, there are no Mazda's directly that support android auto at this point in time. They keep claiming they will, but they haven't made it happen yet. (I looked at various 2018 models just last week, and if you go to various mazda forums on the internet, it's a constant topic of discussion) The only way i'm aware of to get Android Auto on a Mazda would be to replace the head unit.
  - izacus 9y ago
    Someone built a binary that can be pushed on the Mazda Connect system (it's just Linux running a web browser underneath).
  - tacomonstrous 9y ago
    It's an unofficial mod, available at mazdatweaks.com
Reason077 9y ago
"Tesla does get shit for not supporting either, quite frequently." Yup. As cool as Tesla's giant touchscreen is, the UX just doesn't compare to CarPlay. Much of this is down to Siri, which mostly eliminates the (potentially dangerous) need to hunt around in menus/touch controls for audio and navigation functions while you're driving. No doubt Android Auto has this same advantage. Tesla's voice controls are a joke in comparison.

kalleboo 9y ago

The lack of support for third-party mapping/navigation apps is what keeps me from caring about CarPlay. I'd sooner just buy an iPad mini LTE and bolt it to the center console.

encoderer 9y ago
I’ve switched to Apple maps for this reason. Totally satisfied.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  Where I live even Google Maps isn't very good, and Apple Maps is a joke. Local competitors are miles ahead at car navigation. E.g. around here Google Maps doesn't seem to know about road closures (ones that have been closed for a year and a half after an earthquake) whereas local competitors will tell you "in 2 km, due to construction the road will reduce to one lane"

ak217 9y ago

> Unlike CarPlay, iDrive has a well-resolved, tactile and customisable physical interface. Several manufacturers (Audi for example) offer tactile, context-sensitive clickwheel and touchpad controls for CarPlay and Android Auto. Those function as well or better than iDrive, and have the long-term advantage of Apple and Google supporting them, against which BMW can't hope to compete. (CarPlay restricting third-party apps is definitely a huge problem though.) > Tesla doesn't support CarPlay at all, but you don't hear about hoards of people boycotting Telsa: because their system is also better than CarPlay. Tesla's system is not better than CarPlay with tactile controls. The reason people are not boycotting Tesla is that they are overlooking the enormous issues with their interface due to superior EV technology.

sjwright 9y ago
Controlling Android Auto and CarPlay with car controls is like operating a home theatre with a Logitech remote: it's great if you remember how third-party physical buttons map to the software. The superiority of iDrive isn't readily apparent until you live with it for a few weeks and you realise how straightforward the controls are for frequent tasks, and how the quick-access buttons can turn complex UI dives into one-button macros. I love having physical buttons for "drive home", for "open my GPS address book" button, for "stop nagivating", for "call my wife", for "show trip data" and "show program details for the current DAB radio station".
- izacus 9y ago
  All that superiority of iDrive immediately disappears when you notice that you can't even start Podcast playback in PocketCasts on Android over it. While you can on Android Auto. Same goes for Waze and other important services BMW will never upgrade (or will charge ludicrous amount of money and demand dealer visit to upgrade).
  - sjwright 9y ago
    I agree about Waze, and I said so in my OP. And you can’t play Angry Birds on iDrive either so wow it sucks.

innagadadavida 9y ago

It’s not just about the software getting updated. Most people have everything on their phone. It knows about the next appointment and can seamlessly open maps with the location. Same thing about my music. While the native car interface is better, it will not survive as phone is my primary device. Also the car companies charge for their subpar navigation, updating those maps is another story altogether...

afpx 9y ago

Are you serious? I just sold my 2016 X6 because idrive was so bad. I prefer carplay many times over. I have been a dedicated bmw owner for 15 years, but lately I’ve been thinking they’re losing their charm. CarPlay and it’s supported apps will only get better. I can’t see how the auto industry will be able to keep up or even justify the additional expense for their info-tainment systems. Edit: ok - I didn’t sell it only because of idrive. My driving habits and needs changed. But, it was definitely a factor in not replacing it with another bmw.

apta 9y ago
What did you replace the X6 with?
leesalminen 9y ago
I’ve been pretty happy with Audi MMI interface (and has CarPlay sans subscription).
sjwright 9y ago
I’m completely serious. Touch screens in cars are a joke and a safety hazard. The only people who want them are bad drivers and bad gadget enthusiasts.

chc 9y ago

> Tesla doesn't support CarPlay at all, but you don't hear about hoards of people boycotting Telsa Because that isn't mistreatment; it's just not offering a feature. Doing something in a bad way can be more objectionable than not doing it at all. It's a bit like if you were to aay, "Yes, Restaurant A's soup consistently gives people food poisoning, but you don't hear about people boycotting Restaurant B when they don't even offer soup."