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As an owner of a 2002 I can attest to the fact it has no airplay. Or air conditioning. Or power steering. Most surprising thing about ownership: trying to ex

As an owner of a 2002 I can attest to the fact it has no airplay. Or air conditioning. Or power steering. Most surprising thing about ownership: trying to explain to people the model is 2002 not the year. It's a blast to drive. Tiny little euro engine that you have to thrash to go anywhere and incredible steering. It's a great slow car fast. I'm certainly in BMW's demo as a young professional who loves driving, but this sort of gouging would make me shop elsewhere. It's not even about the money since compared to the price of a car it's nothing. It's a principal of ownership. I'm happy to pay ongoing fees for services that cost companies to maintain. Carplay doesn't have ongoing fees, so bmw behaving like that is crazy.

seanp2k2 9y ago
I'm guessing that if you bought a 2002 (congrats, btw; I was looking into the various flavors thinking of picking one up myself, but the old-school safety standards vs modern vehicles have me very reluctant to get anything older than a ~2012MY), you didn't give BMW much / any money. BMW is dead, long live BMWs?
- theluketaylor 9y ago
  bmw got their money way back in 1975 and it certainly didn't come from me. It is strange to own a car that is older than I am and safety is a big part of it. I have some self imposed rules that don't get rid of the risk, but do reduce it. I won't let kids ride in the car, but adults are free to make up their own mind. I only drive it in good weather and I'm pretty obsessed about maintenance. It's also tiny, so I can give myself tons of room around other cars. Modern cars are bloated (though it's annoying to be in front of pickups since the headlights are higher than my roof) Compared to my 2016 daily driver it would much more dangerous to actually crash, but I am convinced I am far less likely to actually have an accident. The visibility in modern cars is awful as a direct result of the thick pillars required for them to be safe. In the 2002 I can see everything; there is no blind spot for cars to hide in. It also requires huge amounts of concentration to drive. The power band (what little there is) is all up top, so you have to be in the correct gear at all times. My 2002 requires actual driving, so I'm engaged at all times. I sometimes scare myself with how little I can pay attention in my daily. If you want the same experience in a modern car get a fiat 500 abarth. Buzzy little engine you can thrash and corners on rails.
  - TrueGeek 9y ago
    You are right about being less likely to crash. Hagerty has stats on this. It’s for exactly the reasons you state. I daily drive a ‘67 (though not a BMW) and it’s only when not foggy / rainy, I give myself plenty of room around other drivers, I avoid left turns when I can, etc.
  - apercu 9y ago
    I work from home. Drive very little. I have a barebones wrangler with no power locks, no power windows. No airplay. No backup camera. The only amenity is AC. Is it the safest vehicle? No. But it's an old body on frame, and because of that I tend to drive slow anyway. I'm a little jealous of your 2002.
carterehsmith 9y ago
I mean, if you think that $80/year is "gouging" then you are not in their target demographics. To wit, over the price of a new car (whether BMW or Kia), the $80/year does not begin to register. >> I'm certainly in BMW's demo No, you are not. Carmakers target people that will actually want to buy a new car. They do not target people that drive a 2002 or whatever rustbuckets, for obvious reasons.
- sk5t 9y ago
  Can I sell you a box of pencils for $80, then? It's only $80. Look how much you're spending on other stuff, you'll never miss it! Not everyone hews to the psychology of percentage-of-base-thing marginal cost.
  - carterehsmith 9y ago
    I don't think you understand how this technology works, so I will try to help here. Briefly: some car manufacturers provide a car with a cellular connection. That is, the car can connect to the mobile network, just like your cell phone can. So now, with cellular connection, your car can show you online maps, or play online music, or whatever services Apple CarPlay, or Google whatever, or proprietary solutions can provide. Just like your cell phone. Now, I hope this is getting clearer. Is your cell phone usage free? No. You pay Verizon or whoever, a set, monthly fee for the usage. You probably also have a cap (like, 10G data/month). The important takeaway is: the service is not free. You pay for it, usually on some kind of a monthly plan. Now back to the car. It needs the same cellular service that your cell phone needs. Given that your cell-phone usage is not free, it is kind of obvious that your car's cellular connection is not going to be free, either. Makes sense? Now. So now, we know that there are things that are one-time cost (like, when you buy a car for cash), and then there are ongoing costs. For example, your car may need regular oil changes, checkups, and maybe a monthly fee for cellular, and another monthly fee for that Sirius thing. Some carmakers may decide to sweeten the deal that is your car buying experience, by eating up the cost for any, or some of the above. Mind you, it still costs money to e.g. do the oil change on your car; it is not free; it is just that the manufacturer has decided to pay for it. The same logic applies to Sirius and CarPlay and OnRoute or whatever. It is important to realize that, whether it is the oil change or Apple CarPlay, these are ongoing things that the car manufacturer cannot provide themselves. Oil change is not provided by the car manufacturer. Rather, that is provided by dealerships or other independent shops. Same with cellular, car manufacturers do not own cellular networks. Rather, they will hook up your car to whoever provides the cellular. Bottom line. Whether we are talking about the regular oil change, or CarPlay, there is a cost to it, and someone (the car owner -- who else?) will have to pay for it. Hope that helps.
UncleEntity 9y ago
I had one of those in the 90s but with (non-working) factory AC, fun little car. Ended up cracking the head, getting a replacement head from the junkyard that was also cracked then throwing half the engine in the trunk and selling it. Apparently they're known for cracking heads. Not as bulletproof as the Superbeetle I replaced it with but was by far the best handling car I ever owned.

seanp2k2 9y ago

I'm guessing that if you bought a 2002 (congrats, btw; I was looking into the various flavors thinking of picking one up myself, but the old-school safety standards vs modern vehicles have me very reluctant to get anything older than a ~2012MY), you didn't give BMW much / any money. BMW is dead, long live BMWs?

theluketaylor 9y ago
bmw got their money way back in 1975 and it certainly didn't come from me. It is strange to own a car that is older than I am and safety is a big part of it. I have some self imposed rules that don't get rid of the risk, but do reduce it. I won't let kids ride in the car, but adults are free to make up their own mind. I only drive it in good weather and I'm pretty obsessed about maintenance. It's also tiny, so I can give myself tons of room around other cars. Modern cars are bloated (though it's annoying to be in front of pickups since the headlights are higher than my roof) Compared to my 2016 daily driver it would much more dangerous to actually crash, but I am convinced I am far less likely to actually have an accident. The visibility in modern cars is awful as a direct result of the thick pillars required for them to be safe. In the 2002 I can see everything; there is no blind spot for cars to hide in. It also requires huge amounts of concentration to drive. The power band (what little there is) is all up top, so you have to be in the correct gear at all times. My 2002 requires actual driving, so I'm engaged at all times. I sometimes scare myself with how little I can pay attention in my daily. If you want the same experience in a modern car get a fiat 500 abarth. Buzzy little engine you can thrash and corners on rails.
- TrueGeek 9y ago
  You are right about being less likely to crash. Hagerty has stats on this. It’s for exactly the reasons you state. I daily drive a ‘67 (though not a BMW) and it’s only when not foggy / rainy, I give myself plenty of room around other drivers, I avoid left turns when I can, etc.
- apercu 9y ago
  I work from home. Drive very little. I have a barebones wrangler with no power locks, no power windows. No airplay. No backup camera. The only amenity is AC. Is it the safest vehicle? No. But it's an old body on frame, and because of that I tend to drive slow anyway. I'm a little jealous of your 2002.

carterehsmith 9y ago

I mean, if you think that $80/year is "gouging" then you are not in their target demographics. To wit, over the price of a new car (whether BMW or Kia), the $80/year does not begin to register. >> I'm certainly in BMW's demo No, you are not. Carmakers target people that will actually want to buy a new car. They do not target people that drive a 2002 or whatever rustbuckets, for obvious reasons.

sk5t 9y ago
Can I sell you a box of pencils for $80, then? It's only $80. Look how much you're spending on other stuff, you'll never miss it! Not everyone hews to the psychology of percentage-of-base-thing marginal cost.
- carterehsmith 9y ago
  I don't think you understand how this technology works, so I will try to help here. Briefly: some car manufacturers provide a car with a cellular connection. That is, the car can connect to the mobile network, just like your cell phone can. So now, with cellular connection, your car can show you online maps, or play online music, or whatever services Apple CarPlay, or Google whatever, or proprietary solutions can provide. Just like your cell phone. Now, I hope this is getting clearer. Is your cell phone usage free? No. You pay Verizon or whoever, a set, monthly fee for the usage. You probably also have a cap (like, 10G data/month). The important takeaway is: the service is not free. You pay for it, usually on some kind of a monthly plan. Now back to the car. It needs the same cellular service that your cell phone needs. Given that your cell-phone usage is not free, it is kind of obvious that your car's cellular connection is not going to be free, either. Makes sense? Now. So now, we know that there are things that are one-time cost (like, when you buy a car for cash), and then there are ongoing costs. For example, your car may need regular oil changes, checkups, and maybe a monthly fee for cellular, and another monthly fee for that Sirius thing. Some carmakers may decide to sweeten the deal that is your car buying experience, by eating up the cost for any, or some of the above. Mind you, it still costs money to e.g. do the oil change on your car; it is not free; it is just that the manufacturer has decided to pay for it. The same logic applies to Sirius and CarPlay and OnRoute or whatever. It is important to realize that, whether it is the oil change or Apple CarPlay, these are ongoing things that the car manufacturer cannot provide themselves. Oil change is not provided by the car manufacturer. Rather, that is provided by dealerships or other independent shops. Same with cellular, car manufacturers do not own cellular networks. Rather, they will hook up your car to whoever provides the cellular. Bottom line. Whether we are talking about the regular oil change, or CarPlay, there is a cost to it, and someone (the car owner -- who else?) will have to pay for it. Hope that helps.

UncleEntity 9y ago

I had one of those in the 90s but with (non-working) factory AC, fun little car. Ended up cracking the head, getting a replacement head from the junkyard that was also cracked then throwing half the engine in the trunk and selling it. Apparently they're known for cracking heads. Not as bulletproof as the Superbeetle I replaced it with but was by far the best handling car I ever owned.