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How PayPal Shares Your Data

158 points by cstanley 9y ago

yeukhon 9y ago
A list-based would probably just fine... as the user interface...
alain_gilbert 9y ago
With a json viewer chrome extension (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/json-viewer/gbmdgpbipfallnflgajpaliibnhdgobh?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/json-viewer/gbmdgp...) this is much easier to read: http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json
- cesnja 9y ago
  On the other hand, Firefox seems to have such feature built-in.
gruez 9y ago
this is actually worse than the source. for whatever reason, the chart appears super zoomed out for me, so the text is tiny. but even if there wasn't a font issue, the source is already clear as it is that a flowchart style diagram isn't going to help.
- scoggs 9y ago
  And it's an SVG (embedded) to boot so there's no real way for most people to grab the source file and upsize it (where possible). EDIT: Also, I realize there are some relatively simple and quick solutions to this, but it's definitely way more steps / requires more specific software and/or knowledge to execute as simply as right clicking an image on a website, clicking inspect element, locating the line of code with the image source, downloading and going from there / modifying code to meet needs.
RobLach 9y ago
This interface is incredibly hard for me to use. I'm having to do a lot of scrollbar fighting and I can't figure out how to see the nodes beyond the edge of the frame.
Hnrobert42 9y ago
Cool idea but on Firefox Focus on Android, it is almost unusable.
- tenryuu 9y ago
  firefox on desktop is also unusable really
  - foepys 9y ago
    Working fine on Linux with Firefox Nightly here.
pymai 9y ago
something like workflowy or coggle would work much better for this type of thing
Fnoord 9y ago
Just skip this terrible usability nightmare and read the original list instead at [1]. FWIW, I used Ctrl+F to search around (for, in my case, my country name). And the 100 dollar question: is this better or worse than an average bank from your_country? I have no clue about my own bank. Reading through this list, it seems I should get a clue about my own bank. [1] https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list
- erikb 9y ago
  And then what? You find they are doing almost the same, move to the biggest forrest you can find and start living on berries and rabbits? Or you decide to cut 1/3 of your savings, buy paypal and show them how to do it the right way? It's really hard to see any reasonable options you have as source of data.
  - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
    Some cryptocurrencies are designed to preserve privacy, to protect people from exactly this problem.
    - zerokernel 9y ago
      I don't think cryptocurrencies are protecting anyone from any problem.
      - jstanley 9y ago
        OK, I'll bite. How is Monero not protecting people's privacy?
        paulsutter 9y ago
        Because most Monero transactions are traceable, according to research by the National University of Singapore: https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf If anyone can debunk this I’d love to hear more, but generally I think it’s dangerous to rely on claims of secrecy
shawn 9y ago
The tree visualization was kind of cool, so I turned it into a library called d4tree. https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree Throw it any JSON data whose structure is isomorphic to http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json Here's an example of how to use d4tree on your site: https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal git clone https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal cd d4tree-paypal yarn && yarn dev Make any changes you want to paypal.json, then refresh http://localhost:1234 http://localhost:1234 to see them. Whenever you're happy, run `yarn deploy` to push it live. Standard paypal visualization: https://dist-zlomdidehn.now.sh/ https://dist-zlomdidehn.now.sh/ After truncating paypal.json to three nodes, we get a skinny tree: https://dist-kzpulmmevd.now.sh/ https://dist-kzpulmmevd.now.sh/ Let's attach package.json to the top of paypal.json: import d4tree from 'd4tree'; d4tree([{ name: "package.json", parent: "null", children: require('./paypal.json'), Data: JSON.stringify(require('./package.json'), true, 2), }]); https://dist-vcqquyfbwl.now.sh https://dist-vcqquyfbwl.now.sh https://imgur.com/a/arwF5 https://imgur.com/a/arwF5
- jamessb 9y ago
  Do you realise that this is essentialy Mike Bostock's reference implementation of a Collapsible Tree [1]? Why re-distribute it as a separate repository? Rebeca Ricks added tooltips, but you haven't generalised these: the code in your repo still generates this text using .Data and .Purpose attributes of the data objects representing the leaves [2], which won't exist for general tree objects. [1]: https://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083 https://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083 [2]: https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree/blob/master/js/script.js#L72 https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree/blob/master/js/script.js#L7...
  - shawn 9y ago
    http://9front.org/img/freesoftware.gif http://9front.org/img/freesoftware.gif Thanks! :) I did this mostly for the fun of it, but it's nice to know the source. The styling on Mike's tree is much nicer. It's quite handy to have zooming and tooltips. The zooming is a little rough, but overall this seems like a nice way to explore huge amounts of hierarchical data. My overall aim is to make an interactive bundle explorer: https://i.imgur.com/Ww0ARCS.png https://i.imgur.com/Ww0ARCS.png Graphviz is nice, but it's not interactive. What you really want is to attach a ton of information to each node, hidden by default. Tooltips are a small but promising step towards that. It doesn't seem like this library can handle circular dependencies though. Anyone know of something along these lines that can handle arbitrary cycles? DOT graphs try to display all the nodes at once, but it seems like the Collapsible Tree strategy could be applied to circular graphs: just let the user click on the edges they want to explore, and elide the rest. Then indicate which edges are "interesting" (lots of children, or children with significant effects), so that users aren't randomly stepping through a huge mostly-hidden graph. I'd love to find something performant enough to display your entire filesystem as an explorable tree, but that'd be quite a challenge.
__ka 9y ago
Maybe of interest: https://www.whotracks.me/ https://www.whotracks.me/ - A growing list of profiles on trackers and tracking landscape on popular domains.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
tempodox 9y ago
If I zoom in enough to have readable text, the branches below the middle are unreachable via scrolling (Safari). Something is very broken with this presentation.
lucb1e 9y ago
Huh, what is the CCC doing in there? The Chaos Computer Club, largest hacker club of Europe, organizer of the Chaos Community Congress that attracts some 15 000 hackers every year? They're filed under customer support outsourcing with the "explanation": > Global Ops Customer service outsourcing for the German market. > Full Name, Date of Birth, Email address, Physical address, Telephone number, Financials-bank, debit, and credit, Transaction history, Business details including URLs, SSN/TIN/EIN, IP Address. Counterparty details.
- jdiaz5513 9y ago
  I would be amused to find out it's a PoC to demonstrate what it takes to sucker a company into handing over the data.
- germanier 9y ago
  That's probably the callcenter company CCC, which is unrelated to them. https://www.yourccc.com/ https://www.yourccc.com/
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    Ah right, that makes sense. Thanks!
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ram_rar 9y ago
Understanding privacy policies and terms of service has become a nightmare. I wish there was a standard privacy format, which companies could use to define and update their privacy policies. That way, it ll be easier for people to understand 1. What personal data is being used ? 2. What kind of data do websites store in your browser cookie ? 3. Which are the 3rd party tools / services used to share data ? 4. Who are the 3rd parties, the data is being shared with.

158 points by cstanley 9y ago

A list-based would probably just fine... as the user interface...

With a json viewer chrome extension (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/json-viewer/gbmdgpbipfallnflgajpaliibnhdgobh?hl=en-US https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/json-viewer/gbmdgp...) this is much easier to read: http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json

cesnja 9y ago
On the other hand, Firefox seems to have such feature built-in.

gruez 9y ago

this is actually worse than the source. for whatever reason, the chart appears super zoomed out for me, so the text is tiny. but even if there wasn't a font issue, the source is already clear as it is that a flowchart style diagram isn't going to help.

scoggs 9y ago
And it's an SVG (embedded) to boot so there's no real way for most people to grab the source file and upsize it (where possible). EDIT: Also, I realize there are some relatively simple and quick solutions to this, but it's definitely way more steps / requires more specific software and/or knowledge to execute as simply as right clicking an image on a website, clicking inspect element, locating the line of code with the image source, downloading and going from there / modifying code to meet needs.

RobLach 9y ago

This interface is incredibly hard for me to use. I'm having to do a lot of scrollbar fighting and I can't figure out how to see the nodes beyond the edge of the frame.

Hnrobert42 9y ago

Cool idea but on Firefox Focus on Android, it is almost unusable.

tenryuu 9y ago
firefox on desktop is also unusable really
- foepys 9y ago
  Working fine on Linux with Firefox Nightly here.

pymai 9y ago

something like workflowy or coggle would work much better for this type of thing

Fnoord 9y ago

Just skip this terrible usability nightmare and read the original list instead at [1]. FWIW, I used Ctrl+F to search around (for, in my case, my country name). And the 100 dollar question: is this better or worse than an average bank from your_country? I have no clue about my own bank. Reading through this list, it seems I should get a clue about my own bank. [1] https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list

erikb 9y ago
And then what? You find they are doing almost the same, move to the biggest forrest you can find and start living on berries and rabbits? Or you decide to cut 1/3 of your savings, buy paypal and show them how to do it the right way? It's really hard to see any reasonable options you have as source of data.
- em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
  Some cryptocurrencies are designed to preserve privacy, to protect people from exactly this problem.
  - zerokernel 9y ago
    I don't think cryptocurrencies are protecting anyone from any problem.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      OK, I'll bite. How is Monero not protecting people's privacy?
      - paulsutter 9y ago
        Because most Monero transactions are traceable, according to research by the National University of Singapore: https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf If anyone can debunk this I’d love to hear more, but generally I think it’s dangerous to rely on claims of secrecy

shawn 9y ago

The tree visualization was kind of cool, so I turned it into a library called d4tree. https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree Throw it any JSON data whose structure is isomorphic to http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json Here's an example of how to use d4tree on your site: https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal git clone https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal cd d4tree-paypal yarn && yarn dev Make any changes you want to paypal.json, then refresh http://localhost:1234 http://localhost:1234 to see them. Whenever you're happy, run `yarn deploy` to push it live. Standard paypal visualization: https://dist-zlomdidehn.now.sh/ https://dist-zlomdidehn.now.sh/ After truncating paypal.json to three nodes, we get a skinny tree: https://dist-kzpulmmevd.now.sh/ https://dist-kzpulmmevd.now.sh/ Let's attach package.json to the top of paypal.json: import d4tree from 'd4tree'; d4tree([{ name: "package.json", parent: "null", children: require('./paypal.json'), Data: JSON.stringify(require('./package.json'), true, 2), }]); https://dist-vcqquyfbwl.now.sh https://dist-vcqquyfbwl.now.sh https://imgur.com/a/arwF5 https://imgur.com/a/arwF5

jamessb 9y ago
Do you realise that this is essentialy Mike Bostock's reference implementation of a Collapsible Tree [1]? Why re-distribute it as a separate repository? Rebeca Ricks added tooltips, but you haven't generalised these: the code in your repo still generates this text using .Data and .Purpose attributes of the data objects representing the leaves [2], which won't exist for general tree objects. [1]: https://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083 https://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083 [2]: https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree/blob/master/js/script.js#L72 https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree/blob/master/js/script.js#L7...
- shawn 9y ago
  http://9front.org/img/freesoftware.gif http://9front.org/img/freesoftware.gif Thanks! :) I did this mostly for the fun of it, but it's nice to know the source. The styling on Mike's tree is much nicer. It's quite handy to have zooming and tooltips. The zooming is a little rough, but overall this seems like a nice way to explore huge amounts of hierarchical data. My overall aim is to make an interactive bundle explorer: https://i.imgur.com/Ww0ARCS.png https://i.imgur.com/Ww0ARCS.png Graphviz is nice, but it's not interactive. What you really want is to attach a ton of information to each node, hidden by default. Tooltips are a small but promising step towards that. It doesn't seem like this library can handle circular dependencies though. Anyone know of something along these lines that can handle arbitrary cycles? DOT graphs try to display all the nodes at once, but it seems like the Collapsible Tree strategy could be applied to circular graphs: just let the user click on the edges they want to explore, and elide the rest. Then indicate which edges are "interesting" (lots of children, or children with significant effects), so that users aren't randomly stepping through a huge mostly-hidden graph. I'd love to find something performant enough to display your entire filesystem as an explorable tree, but that'd be quite a challenge.

__ka 9y ago

Maybe of interest: https://www.whotracks.me/ https://www.whotracks.me/ - A growing list of profiles on trackers and tracking landscape on popular domains.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

tempodox 9y ago

If I zoom in enough to have readable text, the branches below the middle are unreachable via scrolling (Safari). Something is very broken with this presentation.

lucb1e 9y ago

Huh, what is the CCC doing in there? The Chaos Computer Club, largest hacker club of Europe, organizer of the Chaos Community Congress that attracts some 15 000 hackers every year? They're filed under customer support outsourcing with the "explanation": > Global Ops Customer service outsourcing for the German market. > Full Name, Date of Birth, Email address, Physical address, Telephone number, Financials-bank, debit, and credit, Transaction history, Business details including URLs, SSN/TIN/EIN, IP Address. Counterparty details.

jdiaz5513 9y ago
I would be amused to find out it's a PoC to demonstrate what it takes to sucker a company into handing over the data.
germanier 9y ago
That's probably the callcenter company CCC, which is unrelated to them. https://www.yourccc.com/ https://www.yourccc.com/
- lucb1e 9y ago
  Ah right, that makes sense. Thanks!

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ram_rar 9y ago

Understanding privacy policies and terms of service has become a nightmare. I wish there was a standard privacy format, which companies could use to define and update their privacy policies. That way, it ll be easier for people to understand 1. What personal data is being used ? 2. What kind of data do websites store in your browser cookie ? 3. Which are the 3rd party tools / services used to share data ? 4. Who are the 3rd parties, the data is being shared with.