16 ms·

So don't buy BMW's if it matters to you. The issue will then self correct. I guess it's easy for me to say, because beyond a BMW 2002 (which ain't got no airpla

by apercu 9y ago

So don't buy BMW's if it matters to you. The issue will then self correct. I guess it's easy for me to say, because beyond a BMW 2002 (which ain't got no airplay) I wouldn't even consider it.

timbo1642 9y ago
Sorry, but this is childish thinking.This won't make a damn difference because so many other people will continue to buy. Same shit with the iPhone X. There are enough suckers that will buy it that Apple will continue to charge an ultra premium. And on top of it, you buy a car for a variety of reasons. For example, BMW has better handling, style, etc... Some people just don't want a mercedes or audi. You can't convince enough people to jump ship and BMW will never think its because of the airplay thing anyways.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  > Same shit with the iPhone X. There are enough suckers Are you calling me a sucker for exercising critical thinking when I purchased my iPhone X? Just because I like something that you don't like doesnt make me a 'sucker'.
  - dietr1ch 9y ago
    "That's exactly what a sucker would say"
  - timbo1642 9y ago
    You're telling Apple that its okay to rip users off like yourself. No reason why that phone should cost that much.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      The Samsung Galaxy Note 8 is $960 if purchased outright through Verizon (64GB version): https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-8/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-n... 2017 flagship phones are expensive because of R&D, manufacturing, and profit margins. Samsung and Apple both roll some of their own silicon (Exynos + A-series). The iPhone X has a Samsung display, and I'm sure that they give them as bad of a deal as they can get away with, since they're their direct competitor. Though https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171108005056/en/iPhone-Costs-Apple-370-Materials-IHS-Markit https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171108005056/en/iPh... puts the cost of the CPU at $27.50 , consider the R&D that was required to get to that part and that part cost, and the operating system, which receives continual updates for years after the device is released, which has hundreds of people working on it at Apple. The LEGO 75192 Millennium Falcon is $800 retail and sold out everywhere. It's just plastic blocks to some people. The reason it costs so much is because that's how much it costs to design, develop , manufacture, distribute, market, sell (Apple owns a ton of retail locations + employs many salespeople + support people that you usually get free access to), and support the hardware and software while maintaining ~20% net profit margins ( https://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NASDAQ/Company/Apple-Inc/Ratios/Profitability https://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NASDAQ/Company/Apple-Inc/R... ). The fact that it exists at $1000 is impressive to me given how Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, HTC, etc bear much less of the cost of OS development + support. http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-software-updates-revisited-two-years-later/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-s... shows where some of the extra cost of an Apple device goes.
      - dannyw 9y ago
        Your points are valid but they seem to imply iPhones are priced using cost-based pricing. That is obviously not true - these phones are priced using value-based pricing, which succinctly is simply “the highest you can charge based on the value the customer gets”.
    - madeofpalk 9y ago
      I'm not being ripped off. I looked at the phone, assessed how much I value it, and determined I can afford it.
      - brokenmachine 9y ago
        Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you're not getting ripped off... I don't care what phone you want to buy though. Personally I use my phone so often that I pretty much don't care at all how much it costs because any price is cheap on a $/use basis. I dislike other things about iphones though so it's more of a moral issue for me avoiding Apple.
- walterbell 9y ago
  Actually the iPhone X is selling so poorly that Apple has not only cut production, they are rumored to be dropping it entirely this year. The technologies in the iPhone X will apparently be distributed across three new iPhone models.
  - rhencke 9y ago
    Do you have a source you can provide for this?
    - walterbell 9y ago
      Ming-Chi Kuo at KGI Securities http://www.valuewalk.com/2018/01/iphone-11-release-date-kgi/ http://www.valuewalk.com/2018/01/iphone-11-release-date-kgi/ https://www.yahoo.com/news/iphone-x-may-discontinued-next-favor-larger-form-225444081.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/iphone-x-may-discontinued-next-fa...
      - rhencke 9y ago
        Thank you. :)
    - kemayo 9y ago
      I think they're referencing this analyst-claim: https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/19/kgi-lowers-iphone-x-sales-estimates-reiterates-6-1-inch-lcd-iphone-coming-in-fall/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/19/kgi-lowers-iphone-x-sales-est... I tend to be skeptical of such analysts, though. Not that the ultimate claim of "the iPhone X's advances and form-factor are going to be moved into all the other models" is terribly controversial -- that's pretty literally what Apple said would happen. Just that it's a person guessing, and such things have been fairly spectacularly wrong in the past.
  - jbigelow76 9y ago
    So are they dropping “it”, by which I assume you mean the FaceId tech, or are they rolling it out to the other phones that Apple sells? Your statement contradicts itself.
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  > There are enough suckers that will buy it that Apple will continue to charge an ultra premium. and > For example, BMW has better handling, style, etc... Sounds like BMW is trying to extract maximum value for a brand and reputation it took them decades to garner. Where is the childish thinking again? If the fee is worth all these other things, people will pay. As well they should.
  - timbo1642 9y ago
    The childish thinking is about thinking if a few people don't buy the company will stop doing what they are doing.
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      Every time I see a restaurant with a line I think of the Nash equilibrium. If there's a line, your prices are too low. Period. If people line up to buy BMWs, the price for BMWs are too low, and they (BMW) should soak people for however much they can. What part of that is childish? If many people stop buying BMWs, they're gonna have to adjust prices or cut component costs.
theluketaylor 9y ago
As an owner of a 2002 I can attest to the fact it has no airplay. Or air conditioning. Or power steering. Most surprising thing about ownership: trying to explain to people the model is 2002 not the year. It's a blast to drive. Tiny little euro engine that you have to thrash to go anywhere and incredible steering. It's a great slow car fast. I'm certainly in BMW's demo as a young professional who loves driving, but this sort of gouging would make me shop elsewhere. It's not even about the money since compared to the price of a car it's nothing. It's a principal of ownership. I'm happy to pay ongoing fees for services that cost companies to maintain. Carplay doesn't have ongoing fees, so bmw behaving like that is crazy.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  I'm guessing that if you bought a 2002 (congrats, btw; I was looking into the various flavors thinking of picking one up myself, but the old-school safety standards vs modern vehicles have me very reluctant to get anything older than a ~2012MY), you didn't give BMW much / any money. BMW is dead, long live BMWs?
  - theluketaylor 9y ago
    bmw got their money way back in 1975 and it certainly didn't come from me. It is strange to own a car that is older than I am and safety is a big part of it. I have some self imposed rules that don't get rid of the risk, but do reduce it. I won't let kids ride in the car, but adults are free to make up their own mind. I only drive it in good weather and I'm pretty obsessed about maintenance. It's also tiny, so I can give myself tons of room around other cars. Modern cars are bloated (though it's annoying to be in front of pickups since the headlights are higher than my roof) Compared to my 2016 daily driver it would much more dangerous to actually crash, but I am convinced I am far less likely to actually have an accident. The visibility in modern cars is awful as a direct result of the thick pillars required for them to be safe. In the 2002 I can see everything; there is no blind spot for cars to hide in. It also requires huge amounts of concentration to drive. The power band (what little there is) is all up top, so you have to be in the correct gear at all times. My 2002 requires actual driving, so I'm engaged at all times. I sometimes scare myself with how little I can pay attention in my daily. If you want the same experience in a modern car get a fiat 500 abarth. Buzzy little engine you can thrash and corners on rails.
netsharc 9y ago
But what's the percentage of BMW drivers are HN readers/tech savvy? I would guess pretty small. The BMW salesman will probably say "This car comes with CarPlay, you can connect your iPhone to it, it costs $80 per year. And they will either pay it because if they can afford a BMW they'll think that's cheap; or they won't pay for it and just use BMW's iDrive (will they even get rid of iDrive on CarPlay-enabled cars?). Later BMW can say, "Hey Apple, only x% of buyers want CarPlay". Speaking of iDrive, I wonder if this decision was forced by whichever C-level-guy (or whatever level) sees iDrive as his baby project.
- azinman2 9y ago
  I've recently been looking to hack CarPlay into my 2007 BMW. There are 3rd party upgrades of the nav system, in addition to companies like Pioneer selling multimedia units that include it. It'd be pretty pissed if BMW wanted to charge me yearly for it. Really all I want is decent maps support / siri integration that doesn't require me touching my phone.
  - myrandomcomment 9y ago
    Put a Pioneer system with CarPlay in my 2010 Porsche. I am pretty happy with it. I need to figure out a better mic, as Siri is bad enough most times, but with the top down...well....
    - Froyoh 9y ago
      Wow you have a Porsche?

by apercu 9y ago

So don't buy BMW's if it matters to you. The issue will then self correct. I guess it's easy for me to say, because beyond a BMW 2002 (which ain't got no airplay) I wouldn't even consider it.

timbo1642 9y ago

Sorry, but this is childish thinking.This won't make a damn difference because so many other people will continue to buy. Same shit with the iPhone X. There are enough suckers that will buy it that Apple will continue to charge an ultra premium. And on top of it, you buy a car for a variety of reasons. For example, BMW has better handling, style, etc... Some people just don't want a mercedes or audi. You can't convince enough people to jump ship and BMW will never think its because of the airplay thing anyways.

madeofpalk 9y ago
> Same shit with the iPhone X. There are enough suckers Are you calling me a sucker for exercising critical thinking when I purchased my iPhone X? Just because I like something that you don't like doesnt make me a 'sucker'.
- dietr1ch 9y ago
  "That's exactly what a sucker would say"
- timbo1642 9y ago
  You're telling Apple that its okay to rip users off like yourself. No reason why that phone should cost that much.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    The Samsung Galaxy Note 8 is $960 if purchased outright through Verizon (64GB version): https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-note-8/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-n... 2017 flagship phones are expensive because of R&D, manufacturing, and profit margins. Samsung and Apple both roll some of their own silicon (Exynos + A-series). The iPhone X has a Samsung display, and I'm sure that they give them as bad of a deal as they can get away with, since they're their direct competitor. Though https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171108005056/en/iPhone-Costs-Apple-370-Materials-IHS-Markit https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171108005056/en/iPh... puts the cost of the CPU at $27.50 , consider the R&D that was required to get to that part and that part cost, and the operating system, which receives continual updates for years after the device is released, which has hundreds of people working on it at Apple. The LEGO 75192 Millennium Falcon is $800 retail and sold out everywhere. It's just plastic blocks to some people. The reason it costs so much is because that's how much it costs to design, develop , manufacture, distribute, market, sell (Apple owns a ton of retail locations + employs many salespeople + support people that you usually get free access to), and support the hardware and software while maintaining ~20% net profit margins ( https://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NASDAQ/Company/Apple-Inc/Ratios/Profitability https://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NASDAQ/Company/Apple-Inc/R... ). The fact that it exists at $1000 is impressive to me given how Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, HTC, etc bear much less of the cost of OS development + support. http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-software-updates-revisited-two-years-later/ http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/02/android-versus-ios-s... shows where some of the extra cost of an Apple device goes.
    - dannyw 9y ago
      Your points are valid but they seem to imply iPhones are priced using cost-based pricing. That is obviously not true - these phones are priced using value-based pricing, which succinctly is simply “the highest you can charge based on the value the customer gets”.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    I'm not being ripped off. I looked at the phone, assessed how much I value it, and determined I can afford it.
    - brokenmachine 9y ago
      Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you're not getting ripped off... I don't care what phone you want to buy though. Personally I use my phone so often that I pretty much don't care at all how much it costs because any price is cheap on a $/use basis. I dislike other things about iphones though so it's more of a moral issue for me avoiding Apple.
walterbell 9y ago
Actually the iPhone X is selling so poorly that Apple has not only cut production, they are rumored to be dropping it entirely this year. The technologies in the iPhone X will apparently be distributed across three new iPhone models.
- rhencke 9y ago
  Do you have a source you can provide for this?
  - walterbell 9y ago
    Ming-Chi Kuo at KGI Securities http://www.valuewalk.com/2018/01/iphone-11-release-date-kgi/ http://www.valuewalk.com/2018/01/iphone-11-release-date-kgi/ https://www.yahoo.com/news/iphone-x-may-discontinued-next-favor-larger-form-225444081.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/iphone-x-may-discontinued-next-fa...
    - rhencke 9y ago
      Thank you. :)
  - kemayo 9y ago
    I think they're referencing this analyst-claim: https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/19/kgi-lowers-iphone-x-sales-estimates-reiterates-6-1-inch-lcd-iphone-coming-in-fall/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/19/kgi-lowers-iphone-x-sales-est... I tend to be skeptical of such analysts, though. Not that the ultimate claim of "the iPhone X's advances and form-factor are going to be moved into all the other models" is terribly controversial -- that's pretty literally what Apple said would happen. Just that it's a person guessing, and such things have been fairly spectacularly wrong in the past.
- jbigelow76 9y ago
  So are they dropping “it”, by which I assume you mean the FaceId tech, or are they rolling it out to the other phones that Apple sells? Your statement contradicts itself.
jimmywanger 9y ago
> There are enough suckers that will buy it that Apple will continue to charge an ultra premium. and > For example, BMW has better handling, style, etc... Sounds like BMW is trying to extract maximum value for a brand and reputation it took them decades to garner. Where is the childish thinking again? If the fee is worth all these other things, people will pay. As well they should.
- timbo1642 9y ago
  The childish thinking is about thinking if a few people don't buy the company will stop doing what they are doing.
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    Every time I see a restaurant with a line I think of the Nash equilibrium. If there's a line, your prices are too low. Period. If people line up to buy BMWs, the price for BMWs are too low, and they (BMW) should soak people for however much they can. What part of that is childish? If many people stop buying BMWs, they're gonna have to adjust prices or cut component costs.

theluketaylor 9y ago

As an owner of a 2002 I can attest to the fact it has no airplay. Or air conditioning. Or power steering. Most surprising thing about ownership: trying to explain to people the model is 2002 not the year. It's a blast to drive. Tiny little euro engine that you have to thrash to go anywhere and incredible steering. It's a great slow car fast. I'm certainly in BMW's demo as a young professional who loves driving, but this sort of gouging would make me shop elsewhere. It's not even about the money since compared to the price of a car it's nothing. It's a principal of ownership. I'm happy to pay ongoing fees for services that cost companies to maintain. Carplay doesn't have ongoing fees, so bmw behaving like that is crazy.

seanp2k2 9y ago
I'm guessing that if you bought a 2002 (congrats, btw; I was looking into the various flavors thinking of picking one up myself, but the old-school safety standards vs modern vehicles have me very reluctant to get anything older than a ~2012MY), you didn't give BMW much / any money. BMW is dead, long live BMWs?
- theluketaylor 9y ago
  bmw got their money way back in 1975 and it certainly didn't come from me. It is strange to own a car that is older than I am and safety is a big part of it. I have some self imposed rules that don't get rid of the risk, but do reduce it. I won't let kids ride in the car, but adults are free to make up their own mind. I only drive it in good weather and I'm pretty obsessed about maintenance. It's also tiny, so I can give myself tons of room around other cars. Modern cars are bloated (though it's annoying to be in front of pickups since the headlights are higher than my roof) Compared to my 2016 daily driver it would much more dangerous to actually crash, but I am convinced I am far less likely to actually have an accident. The visibility in modern cars is awful as a direct result of the thick pillars required for them to be safe. In the 2002 I can see everything; there is no blind spot for cars to hide in. It also requires huge amounts of concentration to drive. The power band (what little there is) is all up top, so you have to be in the correct gear at all times. My 2002 requires actual driving, so I'm engaged at all times. I sometimes scare myself with how little I can pay attention in my daily. If you want the same experience in a modern car get a fiat 500 abarth. Buzzy little engine you can thrash and corners on rails.

netsharc 9y ago

But what's the percentage of BMW drivers are HN readers/tech savvy? I would guess pretty small. The BMW salesman will probably say "This car comes with CarPlay, you can connect your iPhone to it, it costs $80 per year. And they will either pay it because if they can afford a BMW they'll think that's cheap; or they won't pay for it and just use BMW's iDrive (will they even get rid of iDrive on CarPlay-enabled cars?). Later BMW can say, "Hey Apple, only x% of buyers want CarPlay". Speaking of iDrive, I wonder if this decision was forced by whichever C-level-guy (or whatever level) sees iDrive as his baby project.

azinman2 9y ago
I've recently been looking to hack CarPlay into my 2007 BMW. There are 3rd party upgrades of the nav system, in addition to companies like Pioneer selling multimedia units that include it. It'd be pretty pissed if BMW wanted to charge me yearly for it. Really all I want is decent maps support / siri integration that doesn't require me touching my phone.
- myrandomcomment 9y ago
  Put a Pioneer system with CarPlay in my 2010 Porsche. I am pretty happy with it. I need to figure out a better mic, as Siri is bad enough most times, but with the top down...well....
  - Froyoh 9y ago
    Wow you have a Porsche?