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Cross-post: http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-amount-of-detail http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-... Let’s

Cross-post: http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-amount-of-detail http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-... Let’s consider some of these details. Something I think people don’t consider is that there are a non-trivial number of land animal species that migrate across the border. They have no concept of nation-states, and for some, our xenophobic electorate is basically passing a death sentence. The wall would devastate several important ecosystems, especially in the Rio Grande Valley. Walls also need to be maintained, like any other piece of infrastructure. Have you ever visited the great state of Michigan? We can’t even handle roads. How will the federal government, which doesn’t have the best track record with maintaining infrastructure, deal with a 2,000+ mile-long wall? Another issue is surveillance. Who will watch the entire thing? Who will make sure someone isn’t chipping away at the other side with a spoon or trying to dig under it? You can’t watch thousands of miles of wall very easily. There are all kinds of issues with this (oh, funding is a big one too), and this just scratches the surface. If you Google “Trump border wall problems”, plenty of articles have already been written that go into much more detail.

oh_sigh 9y ago
There are wall prototypes that allow for small/medium size animal passage, but not humans. Also, the entire southern border won be walled. If there is a natural border, mountainous terrain, etc, the wall won't be built there. While the area may be unsuitable for human crossing animals may not have a problem with it. Roads have different material and structural requirements than walls. Maintenance will obviously cost money, but it serves a purpose. 450,000 people were caught in 2016 trying to illegally cross the southern border. Now imagine how many made it through. I assume you will not find this argument very convincing if you are the kind of person that believes that illegal immigrants make money for the state they illegally live in. CBP border agents monitor the wall. And again, it isn't just 2000 miles of wall. It is "smart wall", where it will have the most impact to prevent crossings
- Balgair 9y ago
  So wait, we're going to have people just stare south for 8 hours a day? How is this not 'government waste'?
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Well, hundreds of thousands of people try to cross the southern us border every year. It is only wasteful if they aren't accomplishing anything. And, these days we have video cameras, so one person can monitor multiple miles of the wall from an operations center
    - Balgair 9y ago
      Then why do we need a wall if we're just going to use cameras anyway? It'll slow them down, yeah, but just by the amount of time that it takes to climb a ladder, cut some wire, whatever. Maybe 2 minutes max?
      - oh_sigh 9y ago
        The cameras aren't going to be directly on the wall, and they won't be easily accessible.
        Balgair 9y ago
        I'm confused. Are there going to be cameras? If they aren't on the wall, where are they? Hidden in some cactus or in a drone? Still, why a giant wall then if all it ends up being is a concrete hurdle?
        oh_sigh 9y ago
        Yes, but the camera won't be easily accessible at all, let alone from the Mexican side. The wall is so people can't just mosey across the border. Even if you had cameras there, sending out a team once you see someone crossing would be very difficult to find them. With the wall, it will be passable but will take work and a fair amount of material like ladders, ropes, etc which will all take time, and allow for security to arrive with a greater chance of catching people.
MichaelGG 9y ago
>xenophobic Yeah there's no way any friendly, rational person can look at Mexico and possibly come to the conclusion of "no thanks, I'd prefer not to have that here". Mexico has no problem with extreme prejudice towards the rest of Latin America. Policies that people would decry x1000 if the US did them to poor Mexicans. But somehow the US applying some basic restriction to Mexico is "xenophobic" among other horrible phobias.

oh_sigh 9y ago

There are wall prototypes that allow for small/medium size animal passage, but not humans. Also, the entire southern border won be walled. If there is a natural border, mountainous terrain, etc, the wall won't be built there. While the area may be unsuitable for human crossing animals may not have a problem with it. Roads have different material and structural requirements than walls. Maintenance will obviously cost money, but it serves a purpose. 450,000 people were caught in 2016 trying to illegally cross the southern border. Now imagine how many made it through. I assume you will not find this argument very convincing if you are the kind of person that believes that illegal immigrants make money for the state they illegally live in. CBP border agents monitor the wall. And again, it isn't just 2000 miles of wall. It is "smart wall", where it will have the most impact to prevent crossings

Balgair 9y ago
So wait, we're going to have people just stare south for 8 hours a day? How is this not 'government waste'?
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Well, hundreds of thousands of people try to cross the southern us border every year. It is only wasteful if they aren't accomplishing anything. And, these days we have video cameras, so one person can monitor multiple miles of the wall from an operations center
  - Balgair 9y ago
    Then why do we need a wall if we're just going to use cameras anyway? It'll slow them down, yeah, but just by the amount of time that it takes to climb a ladder, cut some wire, whatever. Maybe 2 minutes max?
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      The cameras aren't going to be directly on the wall, and they won't be easily accessible.
      - Balgair 9y ago
        I'm confused. Are there going to be cameras? If they aren't on the wall, where are they? Hidden in some cactus or in a drone? Still, why a giant wall then if all it ends up being is a concrete hurdle?
        oh_sigh 9y ago
        Yes, but the camera won't be easily accessible at all, let alone from the Mexican side. The wall is so people can't just mosey across the border. Even if you had cameras there, sending out a team once you see someone crossing would be very difficult to find them. With the wall, it will be passable but will take work and a fair amount of material like ladders, ropes, etc which will all take time, and allow for security to arrive with a greater chance of catching people.

MichaelGG 9y ago

>xenophobic Yeah there's no way any friendly, rational person can look at Mexico and possibly come to the conclusion of "no thanks, I'd prefer not to have that here". Mexico has no problem with extreme prejudice towards the rest of Latin America. Policies that people would decry x1000 if the US did them to poor Mexicans. But somehow the US applying some basic restriction to Mexico is "xenophobic" among other horrible phobias.