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Can someone explain to me why a wall can't be built? I know people say it shouldn't be built - but I don't understand why people say we "can't" build it when t

Can someone explain to me why a wall can't be built? I know people say it shouldn't be built - but I don't understand why people say we "can't" build it when they've been built before, and we've done endlessly more complex things - rockets, going to the moon, et (all while China is building artificial islands and the like). In comparison to some of those feats, a wall seems trivial.

thinkingemote 9y ago
I heard that a big portion of the border is over a mountain range, both making actual wall construction hard and almost fulfils the same role of a wall?
zachrose 9y ago
Not the answer you’re looking for, but if you think about short-term and long-term political willpower, “shouldn’t” and “can’t” turn out to be the same thing.
failwall 9y ago
Cross-post: http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-amount-of-detail http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-... Let’s consider some of these details. Something I think people don’t consider is that there are a non-trivial number of land animal species that migrate across the border. They have no concept of nation-states, and for some, our xenophobic electorate is basically passing a death sentence. The wall would devastate several important ecosystems, especially in the Rio Grande Valley. Walls also need to be maintained, like any other piece of infrastructure. Have you ever visited the great state of Michigan? We can’t even handle roads. How will the federal government, which doesn’t have the best track record with maintaining infrastructure, deal with a 2,000+ mile-long wall? Another issue is surveillance. Who will watch the entire thing? Who will make sure someone isn’t chipping away at the other side with a spoon or trying to dig under it? You can’t watch thousands of miles of wall very easily. There are all kinds of issues with this (oh, funding is a big one too), and this just scratches the surface. If you Google “Trump border wall problems”, plenty of articles have already been written that go into much more detail.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  There are wall prototypes that allow for small/medium size animal passage, but not humans. Also, the entire southern border won be walled. If there is a natural border, mountainous terrain, etc, the wall won't be built there. While the area may be unsuitable for human crossing animals may not have a problem with it. Roads have different material and structural requirements than walls. Maintenance will obviously cost money, but it serves a purpose. 450,000 people were caught in 2016 trying to illegally cross the southern border. Now imagine how many made it through. I assume you will not find this argument very convincing if you are the kind of person that believes that illegal immigrants make money for the state they illegally live in. CBP border agents monitor the wall. And again, it isn't just 2000 miles of wall. It is "smart wall", where it will have the most impact to prevent crossings
  - Balgair 9y ago
    So wait, we're going to have people just stare south for 8 hours a day? How is this not 'government waste'?
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      Well, hundreds of thousands of people try to cross the southern us border every year. It is only wasteful if they aren't accomplishing anything. And, these days we have video cameras, so one person can monitor multiple miles of the wall from an operations center
      - Balgair 9y ago
        Then why do we need a wall if we're just going to use cameras anyway? It'll slow them down, yeah, but just by the amount of time that it takes to climb a ladder, cut some wire, whatever. Maybe 2 minutes max?
        oh_sigh 9y ago
        The cameras aren't going to be directly on the wall, and they won't be easily accessible.
rhaps0dy 9y ago
Parent never claimed the wall can't be built. Depending on your interpretation, they claimed it will never be built, or merely claimed that Boris isn't obsessed with a wall.
- twic 9y ago
  To be fair to joelrunyon, he wasn't saying that i was claiming that - he was using my feeble witticism as a jumping-off point to ask a question about «why people say we "can't" build it» (emphasis mine). FWIW, i did indeed mean to imply that Trump's wall is absurd and will never be built. I assume that, like the Channel bridge, the Hyperloop, the Freedom Ship, etc, it could be built, given enough time and money. I just don't think that there are enough people who think it's worth the cost to pay for it.
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    Thank you for the presumption of good will. Doesn't happen much online these days. Cheers.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nicwolff 9y ago
You can't build a wall on the border because 2/3 of the border is over the middle (more accurately, the thalweg[0]) of the Rio Grande and the Colorado River. So you'd have to build it on the American side, most of which is private property that would have to be taken by eminent domain, and its owners compensated, many of whom would sue to prevent that – notably, Cards Against Humanity[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalweg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalweg [1] https://cardsagainsthumanitystopsthewall.com https://cardsagainsthumanitystopsthewall.com
0x4f3759df 9y ago
Saying 'walls can't be built' is just an ideological exaggeration.

thinkingemote 9y ago

I heard that a big portion of the border is over a mountain range, both making actual wall construction hard and almost fulfils the same role of a wall?

zachrose 9y ago

Not the answer you’re looking for, but if you think about short-term and long-term political willpower, “shouldn’t” and “can’t” turn out to be the same thing.

failwall 9y ago

Cross-post: http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-amount-of-detail http://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-... Let’s consider some of these details. Something I think people don’t consider is that there are a non-trivial number of land animal species that migrate across the border. They have no concept of nation-states, and for some, our xenophobic electorate is basically passing a death sentence. The wall would devastate several important ecosystems, especially in the Rio Grande Valley. Walls also need to be maintained, like any other piece of infrastructure. Have you ever visited the great state of Michigan? We can’t even handle roads. How will the federal government, which doesn’t have the best track record with maintaining infrastructure, deal with a 2,000+ mile-long wall? Another issue is surveillance. Who will watch the entire thing? Who will make sure someone isn’t chipping away at the other side with a spoon or trying to dig under it? You can’t watch thousands of miles of wall very easily. There are all kinds of issues with this (oh, funding is a big one too), and this just scratches the surface. If you Google “Trump border wall problems”, plenty of articles have already been written that go into much more detail.

oh_sigh 9y ago
There are wall prototypes that allow for small/medium size animal passage, but not humans. Also, the entire southern border won be walled. If there is a natural border, mountainous terrain, etc, the wall won't be built there. While the area may be unsuitable for human crossing animals may not have a problem with it. Roads have different material and structural requirements than walls. Maintenance will obviously cost money, but it serves a purpose. 450,000 people were caught in 2016 trying to illegally cross the southern border. Now imagine how many made it through. I assume you will not find this argument very convincing if you are the kind of person that believes that illegal immigrants make money for the state they illegally live in. CBP border agents monitor the wall. And again, it isn't just 2000 miles of wall. It is "smart wall", where it will have the most impact to prevent crossings
- Balgair 9y ago
  So wait, we're going to have people just stare south for 8 hours a day? How is this not 'government waste'?
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Well, hundreds of thousands of people try to cross the southern us border every year. It is only wasteful if they aren't accomplishing anything. And, these days we have video cameras, so one person can monitor multiple miles of the wall from an operations center
    - Balgair 9y ago
      Then why do we need a wall if we're just going to use cameras anyway? It'll slow them down, yeah, but just by the amount of time that it takes to climb a ladder, cut some wire, whatever. Maybe 2 minutes max?
      - oh_sigh 9y ago
        The cameras aren't going to be directly on the wall, and they won't be easily accessible.

rhaps0dy 9y ago

Parent never claimed the wall can't be built. Depending on your interpretation, they claimed it will never be built, or merely claimed that Boris isn't obsessed with a wall.

twic 9y ago
To be fair to joelrunyon, he wasn't saying that i was claiming that - he was using my feeble witticism as a jumping-off point to ask a question about «why people say we "can't" build it» (emphasis mine). FWIW, i did indeed mean to imply that Trump's wall is absurd and will never be built. I assume that, like the Channel bridge, the Hyperloop, the Freedom Ship, etc, it could be built, given enough time and money. I just don't think that there are enough people who think it's worth the cost to pay for it.
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  Thank you for the presumption of good will. Doesn't happen much online these days. Cheers.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

nicwolff 9y ago

You can't build a wall on the border because 2/3 of the border is over the middle (more accurately, the thalweg[0]) of the Rio Grande and the Colorado River. So you'd have to build it on the American side, most of which is private property that would have to be taken by eminent domain, and its owners compensated, many of whom would sue to prevent that – notably, Cards Against Humanity[1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalweg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalweg [1] https://cardsagainsthumanitystopsthewall.com https://cardsagainsthumanitystopsthewall.com

0x4f3759df 9y ago

Saying 'walls can't be built' is just an ideological exaggeration.