6 ms·

Someone clearly needs to be punished. Several someones. I'd let this intrepid and talented 15 year old go, and let the US (and whoever else concerned) prosecute

Someone clearly needs to be punished. Several someones. I'd let this intrepid and talented 15 year old go, and let the US (and whoever else concerned) prosecute the living crap out of all those in public positions of trust and clearly not up to it. Suggest starting from the top. A head of CIA with classified material stored on his computer in such a way that access is dependent on some external internet provider? Under the always ressourceful American penal system, that sounds to me like any number of centuries on the inside looking out.

Larrikin 9y ago
Why should the person committing the crimes be let go? Because you identify with them? Because they are seemingly intelligent in how they committed their crimes? I don't understand wanting to punish "dumb" criminals when the "smart" ones are far more dangerous
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  > Why should the person committing the crimes be let go? Because a child calling a helpdesk and pretending to be someone else is a prank. Slap on the wrist, followed by a job offer. It seems on a similar level to ringing a bar and asking for 'Amanda Hugginkiss' or 'Mike Hunt'. At least this kid found the problem before the Russians did.
  - krapp 9y ago
    A child impersonating government officials in order to gain access to classified networks, remotely vandalizing people's computers, reading their emails, harrassing them, doxxing them and threatening to rape their children is not ringing up a bar and asking for "Amanda Hugginkiss." If it had been a cop doing this, everyone calling this kid a hero or merely a precocious youth would be crying out for blood.
    - jimnotgym 9y ago
      > If it had been a cop doing this Then it would not be an even similar case. It is a feature of many civilised societies that we tend to forgive misdemeanors by minors as 'part of growing up' and 'learning right from wrong'. Should it be a crime because this autistic kid happened to be good at his prank?
      - krapp 9y ago
        > It is a feature of many civilised societies that we tend to forgive misdemeanors by minors as 'part of growing up' and 'learning right from wrong'. Except many of the things he's accused of doing are clearly not misdemeanors. You're also assuming there was no malicious intent in what he did. He was perfectly aware that what he was doing was wrong, and he intended to do harm to people because they worked for the US government. You seem to have the actual legal system confused with the plot of Dennis the Menace or Leave it to Beaver. >Should it be a crime because this autistic kid happened to be good at his prank? Oh, he's autistic? Never mind, free pass then. No... it wasn't merely a prank, and being autistic doesn't imply being legally incapable of judgement.
        ryanlol 9y ago
        In civilized societies we also tend to forgive the more serious offences by minors as 'part of growing up' and 'learning right from wrong'.
        krapp 9y ago
        Trying minors for "more serious offences" is a thing just about everywhere. It's clear this particular minor knows right from wrong, and that what he did was on the 'wrong' end of the spectrum. Would you feel the same way if he'd actually followed through on his rape threats? Or if he'd SWATted someone? At what point would you be willing to admit this "prank" wasn't harmless?
        ryanlol 9y ago
  - Larrikin 9y ago
    Crimes are not pranks
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      Why not? Who are you to decide what isn't a prank? Seems to me that (small) property crimes are a crucial part of many pranks. http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/by_year/1994/cp_car/ http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/by_year/1994/cp_car/
    - ballenf 9y ago
      Most pranks can be prosecuted as crimes. Broad disturbing the peace and harassment statutes apply to most. Here's 3 that come to mind: - toilet-papering a house/tree - ding-dong-ditch (harassment, possibly even rising to a hate crime in the right circumstances) - flaming shit on doorstep (obviously) Whether something is a crime or not is a pretty bad test for whether a child should be held accountable as an adult for the act.
    - jimnotgym 9y ago
      Lots of pranks are criminal. Graffiti for instance. But if the police found your child drawing a penis on a poster of a politician do you think he deserves telling off, or jail?
  - mynewtb 9y ago
    Or the Chinese!! Or the North Koreans!!!
  - 1337biz 9y ago
    Is there already a Reductio Ad Russiairum? There needs to be one! It's still going strong.
  - bsamuels 9y ago
    you think swatting is a prank?
- interfixus 9y ago
  I would answer you, but for the "Because you identify with them?"
- indemnity 9y ago
  Me & my friends were script kiddies who broke into school & government systems for laughs while we were in school. All went on to good careers in tech & VC. I’m actually more worried about the mindset that doesn’t want children to question authority and test the boundaries.
  - yborg 9y ago
    This may explain why there are so many sociopaths in tech and VC. I wonder what Travis Kalanick did for laughs when he was in school.
    - baursak 9y ago
      Questioning the authority is by no means sociopathic.
    - rbanffy 9y ago
      Testing boundaries is a natural part of growing up. My 5yo daughter does it all the time. Unfortunately, for some kids, their abilities may place the boundaries well beyond what would be considered criminal. Some go for drugs, some go into exploring other realms. When I was a teenager, I used to connect to BBSs outside the country by using the unconnected but active phone lines that came into the building. Only later someone told me that it was a relatively serious offence in my home country, going against national security laws and that it was done in a military dictatorship that, luckily at my time, was no longer keen on disappearing people. Later I learned many of my colleagues on college used to do the same.
  - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
    > I’m actually more worried about the mindset that doesn’t want children to question authority and test the boundaries. Thought exercise: Does/should the same hold true for children who question authority and test boundaries through petty theft, or muggings? Why or Why not?
iovrthoughtthis 9y ago
> Someone clearly needs to be punished. Do they? What does that achieve?
- interfixus 9y ago
  It's one area where punishment might actually serve as a deterrent. I really am all for holding public servants to very strict standards, not least where security is concerned. If it were common knowledge that your cavalier disregard of prescribed rules would see you on the street within ten minutes of it being discovered, I'm sure it would sharpen the attention of some, and get rid of others.
  - alphakappa 9y ago
    A deterrent to future pranksters maybe. But I would imagine that the real danger is from malicious actors (say, foreign governments) who would not be deterred by the threat of punishment. So what does punishing this kid get us, other than satisfaction?
    - interfixus 9y ago
      I wrote the toplevel comment, advocating punishment for various officials, and letting the kid go. You may wish to turn your comment around by roughly 180 degrees.
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  It would achieve the very negative thing of not dealing with the real issue. It reminds me of the story of Richard Feynman demonstrating to a superior how not spinning the dial of the standard GI safe at Los Alamos after closing it allowed someone to read the combination. His superiors response was to send a memo saying, 'Don't leave Mr Feynman alone in your office'.
jimnotgym 9y ago
It seems mad that access to sensitive databases, for instance, is a simple password reset issue. I would have hoped for some kind of additional hardware security, like a keyfob/dongle. I remember reading that MI6 spooks have them. I too have little sympathy for the likes of the FBI or CIA when they suffer this kind of breach, it shows they are not competent. Unfortunately they will instead try to extract retribution from some autistic kid...again.
- willstrafach 9y ago
  A smartcard is usually used for access to SBU material from regular computers, but apparently some agencies have not caught up and are still using username/password for authentication.
- xiphias 9y ago
  The only way to solve this issue is to decentralize violence / punishment. Still, it will take a lot of time to get there _after_ we have decentralized currency. For now this is what we have with all the good and the bad parts.

Larrikin 9y ago

Why should the person committing the crimes be let go? Because you identify with them? Because they are seemingly intelligent in how they committed their crimes? I don't understand wanting to punish "dumb" criminals when the "smart" ones are far more dangerous

jimnotgym 9y ago
> Why should the person committing the crimes be let go? Because a child calling a helpdesk and pretending to be someone else is a prank. Slap on the wrist, followed by a job offer. It seems on a similar level to ringing a bar and asking for 'Amanda Hugginkiss' or 'Mike Hunt'. At least this kid found the problem before the Russians did.
- krapp 9y ago
  A child impersonating government officials in order to gain access to classified networks, remotely vandalizing people's computers, reading their emails, harrassing them, doxxing them and threatening to rape their children is not ringing up a bar and asking for "Amanda Hugginkiss." If it had been a cop doing this, everyone calling this kid a hero or merely a precocious youth would be crying out for blood.
  - jimnotgym 9y ago
    > If it had been a cop doing this Then it would not be an even similar case. It is a feature of many civilised societies that we tend to forgive misdemeanors by minors as 'part of growing up' and 'learning right from wrong'. Should it be a crime because this autistic kid happened to be good at his prank?
    - krapp 9y ago
      > It is a feature of many civilised societies that we tend to forgive misdemeanors by minors as 'part of growing up' and 'learning right from wrong'. Except many of the things he's accused of doing are clearly not misdemeanors. You're also assuming there was no malicious intent in what he did. He was perfectly aware that what he was doing was wrong, and he intended to do harm to people because they worked for the US government. You seem to have the actual legal system confused with the plot of Dennis the Menace or Leave it to Beaver. >Should it be a crime because this autistic kid happened to be good at his prank? Oh, he's autistic? Never mind, free pass then. No... it wasn't merely a prank, and being autistic doesn't imply being legally incapable of judgement.
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        In civilized societies we also tend to forgive the more serious offences by minors as 'part of growing up' and 'learning right from wrong'.
        krapp 9y ago
        Trying minors for "more serious offences" is a thing just about everywhere. It's clear this particular minor knows right from wrong, and that what he did was on the 'wrong' end of the spectrum. Would you feel the same way if he'd actually followed through on his rape threats? Or if he'd SWATted someone? At what point would you be willing to admit this "prank" wasn't harmless?
        ryanlol 9y ago
- Larrikin 9y ago
  Crimes are not pranks
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    Why not? Who are you to decide what isn't a prank? Seems to me that (small) property crimes are a crucial part of many pranks. http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/by_year/1994/cp_car/ http://hacks.mit.edu/Hacks/by_year/1994/cp_car/
  - ballenf 9y ago
    Most pranks can be prosecuted as crimes. Broad disturbing the peace and harassment statutes apply to most. Here's 3 that come to mind: - toilet-papering a house/tree - ding-dong-ditch (harassment, possibly even rising to a hate crime in the right circumstances) - flaming shit on doorstep (obviously) Whether something is a crime or not is a pretty bad test for whether a child should be held accountable as an adult for the act.
  - jimnotgym 9y ago
    Lots of pranks are criminal. Graffiti for instance. But if the police found your child drawing a penis on a poster of a politician do you think he deserves telling off, or jail?
- mynewtb 9y ago
  Or the Chinese!! Or the North Koreans!!!
- 1337biz 9y ago
  Is there already a Reductio Ad Russiairum? There needs to be one! It's still going strong.
- bsamuels 9y ago
  you think swatting is a prank?
interfixus 9y ago
I would answer you, but for the "Because you identify with them?"
indemnity 9y ago
Me & my friends were script kiddies who broke into school & government systems for laughs while we were in school. All went on to good careers in tech & VC. I’m actually more worried about the mindset that doesn’t want children to question authority and test the boundaries.
- yborg 9y ago
  This may explain why there are so many sociopaths in tech and VC. I wonder what Travis Kalanick did for laughs when he was in school.
  - baursak 9y ago
    Questioning the authority is by no means sociopathic.
  - rbanffy 9y ago
    Testing boundaries is a natural part of growing up. My 5yo daughter does it all the time. Unfortunately, for some kids, their abilities may place the boundaries well beyond what would be considered criminal. Some go for drugs, some go into exploring other realms. When I was a teenager, I used to connect to BBSs outside the country by using the unconnected but active phone lines that came into the building. Only later someone told me that it was a relatively serious offence in my home country, going against national security laws and that it was done in a military dictatorship that, luckily at my time, was no longer keen on disappearing people. Later I learned many of my colleagues on college used to do the same.
- BoiledCabbage 9y ago
  > I’m actually more worried about the mindset that doesn’t want children to question authority and test the boundaries. Thought exercise: Does/should the same hold true for children who question authority and test boundaries through petty theft, or muggings? Why or Why not?

iovrthoughtthis 9y ago

> Someone clearly needs to be punished. Do they? What does that achieve?

interfixus 9y ago
It's one area where punishment might actually serve as a deterrent. I really am all for holding public servants to very strict standards, not least where security is concerned. If it were common knowledge that your cavalier disregard of prescribed rules would see you on the street within ten minutes of it being discovered, I'm sure it would sharpen the attention of some, and get rid of others.
- alphakappa 9y ago
  A deterrent to future pranksters maybe. But I would imagine that the real danger is from malicious actors (say, foreign governments) who would not be deterred by the threat of punishment. So what does punishing this kid get us, other than satisfaction?
  - interfixus 9y ago
    I wrote the toplevel comment, advocating punishment for various officials, and letting the kid go. You may wish to turn your comment around by roughly 180 degrees.
jimnotgym 9y ago
It would achieve the very negative thing of not dealing with the real issue. It reminds me of the story of Richard Feynman demonstrating to a superior how not spinning the dial of the standard GI safe at Los Alamos after closing it allowed someone to read the combination. His superiors response was to send a memo saying, 'Don't leave Mr Feynman alone in your office'.

jimnotgym 9y ago

It seems mad that access to sensitive databases, for instance, is a simple password reset issue. I would have hoped for some kind of additional hardware security, like a keyfob/dongle. I remember reading that MI6 spooks have them. I too have little sympathy for the likes of the FBI or CIA when they suffer this kind of breach, it shows they are not competent. Unfortunately they will instead try to extract retribution from some autistic kid...again.

willstrafach 9y ago
A smartcard is usually used for access to SBU material from regular computers, but apparently some agencies have not caught up and are still using username/password for authentication.
xiphias 9y ago
The only way to solve this issue is to decentralize violence / punishment. Still, it will take a lot of time to get there _after_ we have decentralized currency. For now this is what we have with all the good and the bad parts.