4 ms·

No, the widely accepted interpretation of that law is that, if I have a coworker who wants to be called xe/xem/xyr/xyrs/xemself, I have to comply or face punish

No, the widely accepted interpretation of that law is that, if I have a coworker who wants to be called xe/xem/xyr/xyrs/xemself, I have to comply or face punishment, since not be accommodating of this can be construed as harassment. Ideologues want to dismiss everyone who is against this law as transphobic, but this is demonstrably not true, one can be accepting of the human rights of trans people while simultaneously disagreeing with the extend of protections and privileges granted to them. I think what most people ultimately take issue with, is that this law was evidently ideologically motivated and it felt like no logical arguments could ever be discussed.

upofadown 9y ago
The "it is illegal to use the wrong pronoun" interpretation is only widely accepted by those who have trouble with the definition of the word "discrimination". If I use the wrong pronoun when referring to someone it might rise to the level of harassment if I do it deliberately and repeatedly. It can't be a violation of an anti-discrimination law because it isn't discrimination.
- tomohawk 9y ago
  I see. So If I insist that my pronoun is "his majesty" and others don't use it, that would be harassment? http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29230/ http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29230/ For those of us who think that objective reality is more important than what someone's feelings may or may not be, this imposition of a speech code is clearly harassment.
  - aalleavitch 9y ago
    No. That wouldn't be harassment. Here is the Canadian legal definition of harassment: https://www.crcvc.ca/docs/crimharass.pdf https://www.crcvc.ca/docs/crimharass.pdf Now, if I repeatedly followed you around, loudly mocking you and your use of "his majesty" and interfering with your life, then yes that would be harassment.
    - dwaltrip 9y ago
      I'm confused. If someone requested a certain pronoun, and someone else politely but repeatedly refrained from using it, would that be harassment under the new bill?
      - upofadown 9y ago
        The new bill is about discrimination, not harassment, so no.
notsrg 9y ago
Widely accepted by who? Not lawyers. Try actually reading the bill: http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-16/royal-assent http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-16/royal-as...
aalleavitch 9y ago
That's not what the bill says, and that's also not how harrassment works. None of this is an imposition upon you, and I have a really hard time understanding why people are so vehement that it is. I keep seeing people complain that they're not allowed to debate about something, and then they follow that with no actual debate. People act as though they're silenced, but they're clearly not silenced! If people respond with counter-arguments, isn't that exactly what you wanted? I would love to talk about why I think these protections are important. I don't think not believing that these protections are important is some sort of moral failing. I think that frank discussion about these things is important and debating animatedly with my trans friends is exactly how I came to understand their point of view and the challenges they face and ultimately came to empathize with their position.

upofadown 9y ago

The "it is illegal to use the wrong pronoun" interpretation is only widely accepted by those who have trouble with the definition of the word "discrimination". If I use the wrong pronoun when referring to someone it might rise to the level of harassment if I do it deliberately and repeatedly. It can't be a violation of an anti-discrimination law because it isn't discrimination.

tomohawk 9y ago
I see. So If I insist that my pronoun is "his majesty" and others don't use it, that would be harassment? http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29230/ http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29230/ For those of us who think that objective reality is more important than what someone's feelings may or may not be, this imposition of a speech code is clearly harassment.
- aalleavitch 9y ago
  No. That wouldn't be harassment. Here is the Canadian legal definition of harassment: https://www.crcvc.ca/docs/crimharass.pdf https://www.crcvc.ca/docs/crimharass.pdf Now, if I repeatedly followed you around, loudly mocking you and your use of "his majesty" and interfering with your life, then yes that would be harassment.
  - dwaltrip 9y ago
    I'm confused. If someone requested a certain pronoun, and someone else politely but repeatedly refrained from using it, would that be harassment under the new bill?
    - upofadown 9y ago
      The new bill is about discrimination, not harassment, so no.

notsrg 9y ago

Widely accepted by who? Not lawyers. Try actually reading the bill: http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-16/royal-assent http://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-16/royal-as...

aalleavitch 9y ago

That's not what the bill says, and that's also not how harrassment works. None of this is an imposition upon you, and I have a really hard time understanding why people are so vehement that it is. I keep seeing people complain that they're not allowed to debate about something, and then they follow that with no actual debate. People act as though they're silenced, but they're clearly not silenced! If people respond with counter-arguments, isn't that exactly what you wanted? I would love to talk about why I think these protections are important. I don't think not believing that these protections are important is some sort of moral failing. I think that frank discussion about these things is important and debating animatedly with my trans friends is exactly how I came to understand their point of view and the challenges they face and ultimately came to empathize with their position.