4 ms·

California Police Chiefs Misrepresent License Plate Privacy Bill

68 points by DiabloD3 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Blazespinnaker 9y ago
“Data collected by EFF from across the state show that only .08% of vehicle plates captured by police ALPRs are connected to a crime. Lol. What percentage of cars are connected to crime?
- mcny 9y ago
  Why are you running data if you don't suspect a crime? A friend of mine moved to a new neighborhood. Apparently, her neighbor was in the police. She said she was out walking her dog and the neighbor greeted her with her first name and middle name when she had barely moved in. We didn't know her legal middle name was different from what we called her. So we pretty much know he looked her up (driving licence info?) and he wants her to know he looked her up. Why? Who knows but he did.
  - metilda 9y ago
    Illicit querying of NCIC should be a crime in and of itself that officers and anyone else with access (admin personnel & some security guards) are commonly prosecuted for. We should have a right to security in our information, and privacy of it from meddlers and nefarious actors like the aformentioned neighbor. Sadly, many of my fellow Americans are all to happy to claim they have nothing to hide, despite how much that attitude continues to hurt them.
    - b6 9y ago
      > Illicit querying of NCIC should be a crime I'm not disagreeing with this, but I don't think we can trust people to make a system that, e.g., automatically collects and stores the locations of all cars with plates visible to all the roving police cars -- and then not use that information improperly. I'm hoping that we'll gradually choose deliberate ignorance of certain things we could know because although the knowledge could be helpful in certain cases, it's also too dangerous.
      - r00fus 9y ago
        There shouldn't need to be such a choice. Make both more difficult - license plate tracking and inappropriate lookups.
  - tzs 9y ago
    Is she a renter or an owner? If the latter, her name could probably be found on the property sale records which are public.
    - metilda 9y ago
      Why should it matter, said officer shouldn't be querying NCIC to dox his neighbor. I doubt he actually bothered to use the local parcel viewer.
      - mcny 9y ago
        In this case, Renter. Just moved. License would still have old address. You couldn't have "accidentally" found someone like that.
      - tzs 9y ago
        It matters because to make the inference that he was connected to the police and misused police resources to find her information, that information has to not be readily available to the general public. If she had been an owner, the information would be available to the public, and not even all that odd for a neighbor to look up (I look up sales records for houses that sell in my neighborhood to see what they sold for, for example, to get an idea of how the market is).
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    You’re making a bunch of leaps in logic here. How do you know he is law enforcement? Also, you said she just moved, so how does her license have her new address? So how exactly did he identify her to look her up? Maybe he just saw a piece of her mail. Edit: also, the most obvious question: why didn’t she do the normal thing and ask “hey, how do you know my name?”
    - brokenmachine 9y ago
      Seriously, a stranger stating your full name including a middle name they shouldn't know doesn't seem threatening to you?
- 13of40 9y ago
  Speeding is a crime, so about 99.998%.
on_and_off 9y ago
I am genuinely curious : why do people want to cover their plates while the car is parked ?
- dave84 9y ago
  First paragraph: >This simple privacy measure would create an opportunity for drivers to protect sensitive information about their travel and whereabouts from mass collection by law enforcement and private data brokers.
  - on_and_off 9y ago
    I already read it :) But I still don't see how it works .. this info can still be collected while you are driving. And what kind of info are you worried private data brokers will get out of your parked car ?
    - dave84 9y ago
      Well, if we black mirror it up a bit you could be denied a mortgage because you regularly park outside a bookmakers.
      - on_and_off 9y ago
        Makes sense. I still have trouble getting the US mentality. I frequently mock the CNIL because of its overbearing decisions but AFAIK this kind of organism would prevent this kind of use of your personal data.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      "Why are my health insurance premiums going up?" "You regularly ski, an activity associated with a greater chance of injury." "You have been visiting a private clinic for months, which raises your risk of having a major health issue you have not yet disclosed to us." "You regularly eat at McDonalds, raising your long-term health care costs." Or... "Why has my auto insurance gone up?" "You are regularly at locations associated with illegal street racing." "You are regularly near after market parts stores, and after market parts are correlated with high risk drivers."
Simulacra 9y ago
It worries me greatly when communities, businesses, another private entities start recording the license plates.
- krapp 9y ago
  Why? License plates are meant to be public, that's why they're on the outside of cars, where anyone can see them. It's no more sinister than knowing your name and address.
  - vijayr 9y ago
    Why? Your phone number is public, but you wouldn't be happy if the lat/long of your phone during various times of the day is public, right?
    - krapp 9y ago
      Maybe not, but if I knew when I bought the phone that I would be legally required to carry a placard around with my current lat/long on it, I wouldn't be shocked if people knew where I was, even if I put the sign down once in a while. I've got no real issue with being able to cover your plates while parked, but doing so doesn't do much to prevent surveillance or identification - that much is even mentioned in the article.
  - thomastjeffery 9y ago
    Walking around in public does not make it reasonable for someone to track where you are at every moment.
    - krapp 9y ago
      Having a license plate doesn't make it possible for someone to track where you are at every moment. Anyone is able to view a license plate in a public place. Just like names on mailboxes and house numbers, it's a publicly viewable identifier, not an Orwellian form of surveillance.

68 points by DiabloD3 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

“Data collected by EFF from across the state show that only .08% of vehicle plates captured by police ALPRs are connected to a crime. Lol. What percentage of cars are connected to crime?

mcny 9y ago
Why are you running data if you don't suspect a crime? A friend of mine moved to a new neighborhood. Apparently, her neighbor was in the police. She said she was out walking her dog and the neighbor greeted her with her first name and middle name when she had barely moved in. We didn't know her legal middle name was different from what we called her. So we pretty much know he looked her up (driving licence info?) and he wants her to know he looked her up. Why? Who knows but he did.
- metilda 9y ago
  Illicit querying of NCIC should be a crime in and of itself that officers and anyone else with access (admin personnel & some security guards) are commonly prosecuted for. We should have a right to security in our information, and privacy of it from meddlers and nefarious actors like the aformentioned neighbor. Sadly, many of my fellow Americans are all to happy to claim they have nothing to hide, despite how much that attitude continues to hurt them.
  - b6 9y ago
    > Illicit querying of NCIC should be a crime I'm not disagreeing with this, but I don't think we can trust people to make a system that, e.g., automatically collects and stores the locations of all cars with plates visible to all the roving police cars -- and then not use that information improperly. I'm hoping that we'll gradually choose deliberate ignorance of certain things we could know because although the knowledge could be helpful in certain cases, it's also too dangerous.
    - r00fus 9y ago
      There shouldn't need to be such a choice. Make both more difficult - license plate tracking and inappropriate lookups.
- tzs 9y ago
  Is she a renter or an owner? If the latter, her name could probably be found on the property sale records which are public.
  - metilda 9y ago
    Why should it matter, said officer shouldn't be querying NCIC to dox his neighbor. I doubt he actually bothered to use the local parcel viewer.
    - mcny 9y ago
      In this case, Renter. Just moved. License would still have old address. You couldn't have "accidentally" found someone like that.
    - tzs 9y ago
      It matters because to make the inference that he was connected to the police and misused police resources to find her information, that information has to not be readily available to the general public. If she had been an owner, the information would be available to the public, and not even all that odd for a neighbor to look up (I look up sales records for houses that sell in my neighborhood to see what they sold for, for example, to get an idea of how the market is).
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  You’re making a bunch of leaps in logic here. How do you know he is law enforcement? Also, you said she just moved, so how does her license have her new address? So how exactly did he identify her to look her up? Maybe he just saw a piece of her mail. Edit: also, the most obvious question: why didn’t she do the normal thing and ask “hey, how do you know my name?”
  - brokenmachine 9y ago
    Seriously, a stranger stating your full name including a middle name they shouldn't know doesn't seem threatening to you?
13of40 9y ago
Speeding is a crime, so about 99.998%.

on_and_off 9y ago

I am genuinely curious : why do people want to cover their plates while the car is parked ?

dave84 9y ago
First paragraph: >This simple privacy measure would create an opportunity for drivers to protect sensitive information about their travel and whereabouts from mass collection by law enforcement and private data brokers.
- on_and_off 9y ago
  I already read it :) But I still don't see how it works .. this info can still be collected while you are driving. And what kind of info are you worried private data brokers will get out of your parked car ?
  - dave84 9y ago
    Well, if we black mirror it up a bit you could be denied a mortgage because you regularly park outside a bookmakers.
    - on_and_off 9y ago
      Makes sense. I still have trouble getting the US mentality. I frequently mock the CNIL because of its overbearing decisions but AFAIK this kind of organism would prevent this kind of use of your personal data.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    "Why are my health insurance premiums going up?" "You regularly ski, an activity associated with a greater chance of injury." "You have been visiting a private clinic for months, which raises your risk of having a major health issue you have not yet disclosed to us." "You regularly eat at McDonalds, raising your long-term health care costs." Or... "Why has my auto insurance gone up?" "You are regularly at locations associated with illegal street racing." "You are regularly near after market parts stores, and after market parts are correlated with high risk drivers."

Simulacra 9y ago

It worries me greatly when communities, businesses, another private entities start recording the license plates.

krapp 9y ago
Why? License plates are meant to be public, that's why they're on the outside of cars, where anyone can see them. It's no more sinister than knowing your name and address.
- vijayr 9y ago
  Why? Your phone number is public, but you wouldn't be happy if the lat/long of your phone during various times of the day is public, right?
  - krapp 9y ago
    Maybe not, but if I knew when I bought the phone that I would be legally required to carry a placard around with my current lat/long on it, I wouldn't be shocked if people knew where I was, even if I put the sign down once in a while. I've got no real issue with being able to cover your plates while parked, but doing so doesn't do much to prevent surveillance or identification - that much is even mentioned in the article.
- thomastjeffery 9y ago
  Walking around in public does not make it reasonable for someone to track where you are at every moment.
  - krapp 9y ago
    Having a license plate doesn't make it possible for someone to track where you are at every moment. Anyone is able to view a license plate in a public place. Just like names on mailboxes and house numbers, it's a publicly viewable identifier, not an Orwellian form of surveillance.