11 ms·

The Untreatable: The Spanish Flu of 1918

96 points by Vigier 9y ago

beat 9y ago
Last week, someone I know died of this year's influenza. He was 33 years old and reasonably healthy. He got pneumonia, and his heart failed. This is the first time in my life I've experienced a healthy young adult dying of influenza. It's terrifying.
- smartscience 9y ago
  Sorry to hear. It seems influenza is one of the comparatively few things that can kill us as easily now as it could in the relative dark ages of medicine.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - nsgi 9y ago
    I wouldn't say that. One of the main ways flu can kill you is secondary bacterial infection (e.g. pneumonia), and we now have antibiotics for that.
- senatorobama 9y ago
  Did he not get treated fast enough?
- DrScump 9y ago
  74 deaths blamed on flu (correctly or not) in California thus far: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/19/california-flu-deaths-jump-from-42-to-74-greater-bay-area-reports-25/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/19/california-flu-deaths...
  - koheripbal 9y ago
    Yes, but almost exclusively those who die are immune compromised, under 5 months old, or elderly. What's terrifying is healthy adults dying of flu.
- sjg007 9y ago
  Did he get the flu shot?
- dmckeon 9y ago
  Pneumonia vaccine might have prevented such a death - depends on the individual, of course. This option appears to be less well-known than the flu vaccine (and is only reccomended for some of the population). https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/public/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/public/index.html
  - philjohn 9y ago
    This. I didn't know about it, but the nurse at my GP practise nonchalantly said "Oh, since you're asthmatic you're eligible for the Pneumonia vaccine as well, I'll give it to you now if you want".
  - beat 9y ago
    A health care system that isn't a cause of stark financial terror for the poor would have prevented his death. He didn't go to the doctor because he was poor and uninsured, until it was too late.
- sgt101 9y ago
  I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. One of my friends died at a similar age of a brain infection, another died of a rare form of Leukaemia and one died in his forties of an embolism. We are insulated from the idea of death and we have the impression we are immune. The death of the first of my friends in adulthood changed my life positively, I realised that I had to compromise and choose between my ambitions because endlessly delaying gratification might lead to a bitter and empty funeral. I found a happy and immediate, if less exalted, path. The death of my friend a couple of years ago, of the embolism, wasn't like this - I expected and hoped for more epiphany, but didn't find any meaning or change this time. All I can say to you is that your grief and fear are normal, and that you may find comfort and a way forward in time. We're all looking my friend, and we hope to find before our own end.
drdeadringer 9y ago
A few years ago I read 'The Great Influenza' by John Barry, which includes a historical perspective of US medical history leading up to the 1918 pandemic as well as digging into the pandemic itself. I recommend the book.
- Aloha 9y ago
  This is a fantastic book - I can wholeheartedly concur with your recommendation.
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    Recommendation thirded. It's one scary and very informative book.
- greenyoda 9y ago
  The most amazing thing I learned from this book is just how primitive medical practice and training were in the U.S. at the turn of the 20th Century: there were no requirements for doctors to have science education or clinical training. Many doctors had to go to Europe to get better educations. This started changing shortly before the big flu epidemic, and the people - doctors and philanthropists - who brought about the changes were also instrumental in the battle against the flu epidemic. The book is as much a biography of the key players as a history of the events. Also, the book explains how huge numbers of deaths were caused by politicians and bureaucrats. The political machine in one city (Philadelphia, I think) refused to shut down a popular parade, as urged by the health authorities, to stop the spread of the flu. Lots of people needlessly got infected and died. The military packed excessive numbers of WWI recruits into camps designed for a fraction of the number of people, also against the advice of doctors; huge numbers of healthy young men caught the flu and died. And the scientific detective story of how researchers tried to find a cure for the flu was very interesting, with ongoing controversy over what the infectious agent was (virus? bacteria?). We know the answer today, but it wasn't so clear back then. It's a very good read on many levels. Here's a link to the book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036491 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036491
krylon 9y ago
I read somewhere that the Spanish flu was basically what ended the first World War. Not sure if I believe it. In school, I had this history teacher who made a point of telling us - repeatedly - that major historical events can rarely, if ever, be traced to a single cause. But it might have played a significant role. Also, I had no idea at all that it had spread globally. And a lot more people died from it than I had thought. What would happen if such a disease came along today? Are we just lucky that it has not happened, yet?
- kingmanaz 9y ago
  >major historical events can rarely, if ever, be traced to a single cause. But it might have played a significant role. Along those same lines, several years ago a theory was circulated that the 1918 flu outbreak was made more deadly by the over-prescription of aspirin. The basic argument was that high-doses of fever-reducing medication prevented the body from naturally "heating" the flu virus to death.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  We are much better equipped to deal with it. They didn't even know what caused it. We know what genes make the virus more lethal, have a good idea how it spreads, have a somewhat effective vaccine and have better supportive care.
- loopbit 9y ago
  IMHO, no, I don't think it ended WWI, it was probably the end of WWI that spread it globally so fast (plenty of malnourished soldiers going back home). Maybe a bit off-topic, I wholeheartedly agree with your teacher, but even if a historical event has several causes, it's very common for there to be a single trigger that starts the whole thing. Everybody "knows" that the first world war started with the assasination of the archduke Ferdinand, but the causes were many (the alliance between France and Russia, between Germany and Austro-Hungary, the problems in the Balkans between Russia, the Ottoman empire and Austro-Hungary...) As for your question, it probably has happened a few times (avian flu a few years ago?), but medicine is much better now and, on average, the population is healthier. Just these two facts alone make it much more difficult (but not impossible) for something like that from happening again. Another off-topic, but I find it weird that it's called the Spanish flu when, apparently, it started in France. Spain was not part of WWI and didn't have wartime censorship at the time, so it was the first place that started reporting cases of it, but it didn't originate there.
natecavanaugh 9y ago
This is going to sound insanely insensitive, but did he get the vaccine? Actually, it is insensitive, because I would like to either use it in my arguments against anti-vaxxers, or learn where I went wrong. I honestly worry about friends who don't vaccinate their kids, and I'd appreciate either vindication, or piece of mind that I shouldn't look for goblins ;)
- kleer001 9y ago
  IMHO getting vaccinated is more about herd immunity. Everyone I've ever heard who proclaimed heartily that they don't get vax either said it makes them sick or they never get sick. The first is unlikely, but some people do have reactions. It's more likely they had a coincidental cold or a psychosomatic reaction. The second is irrelevant. Getting a vaccination isn't about YOU, it's about the vulnerable people around you and the vulnerable that will interact with the people around you. Also you could be infected and have no symptoms, so pass it around without knowing. But I'm sure you already know that. I'm only mentioning it for fuel against the antivaxers you engage with, because they're endangering us all and need to be stopped.
  - phaus 9y ago
    >IMHO getting vaccinated is more about herd immunity. Everyone I've ever heard who proclaimed heartily that they don't get vax either said it makes them sick or they never get sick. Its not a psychosomatic reaction. People frequently get minor, flu-like symptoms for a few days after getting a vaccine. While its not as severe as having the flu, people feel "sick" and so they accurately describe themselves as having gotten sick from the flu vaccine because it makes far more sense to talk about these things in the context of the way they make us feel, and no sense at all to talk about the underlying science behind vaccines that doesn't magically make us feel better just because its technically correct. I get minor, flu like symptoms, which are still a pain in the ass, about 85% of the time when I get a flu vaccine (which is every year). Its still significantly better than getting the flu, but its pretty obnoxious that the medical community tries to shame people for noting the objective fact that getting a vaccine is still rather unpleasant. Its like our society is incapable of understanding nuance. You're forced to either take the side of anti-vax lunatics or pretend that vaccines have no side-effects. Also, about your comment on the vaccination being for the good of the "herd". That's mostly correct, but it doesn't tell the whole story. According to the CDC, if you get vaccinated and then get the flu, the severity of it will be somewhat lessened and the chances of it becoming a severe illness will be reduced. So its still allegedly worth it for the individual.
Aloha 9y ago
Bear in mind, another 1918 like flu will come - and even modern medicine is basically helpless to stop it - we just know better how to treat it.
- z3t4 9y ago
  There is a flu almost every year. And we're pretty good at making vaccines. A couple of years ago there was a "training" in Sweden where every citizen was called in for mass vaccination. You didn't have to take it, but most people did. First medicine personnel, then pregnant, children and elders, then everyone else. If there is a dangerous flue like the Spanish Flu again, this is probably what will happen.
  - beamatronic 9y ago
    Exactly, we have knowledge now and this knowledge will help us - everyone has heard of the swine flu for instance
    - DrScump 9y ago
      The 1976 Swine Flu[0] is not a vaccination success story. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#1976_U.S._outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#1976_U.S._outb...
  - knz 9y ago
    I'm surprised they don't mail the injections out instead of requiring people to assemble (a great place to spread disease). The movie Contagion was partially set where I live in Minnesota - it contained depictions of people assembling for food, vaccines, treatment, and mass burial. Seeing local landmarks in the movie made it feel very real and made me think more about emergency preparedness.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  With global instant communication we could now can quarantine ourselves in our homes universally and on very short notice.
z3t4 9y ago
It might have been a biological weapon. I don't think anyone want to take credit for it though.
tzahola 9y ago
It’s fascinating that we had the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics at the time, yet we don’t know to this day why the Spanish flu was so deadly. Another puzzling disease that appeared at that time and have disappeared since then was encephalitis lethargica: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis_lethargica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis_lethargica Some hypothesize that the two were in fact related.
- sargare 9y ago
  Some years ago I got the flu and two days later I became unconscious, went to a coma for five days. It took atleast six month for the hallucinations and the body aches to stop. Doctor said it was Viral Encephalitis. Worst days of my life, but still lucky to be alive.
  - tzahola 9y ago
    Wow, encephalitis is no joke! You’re lucky to be alive. May I ask how old were you at the time?
    - sargare 9y ago
      I was 26 at that time.
  - rubicon33 9y ago
    That's terrifying. Can I ask - how did you treat the flu once you knew you were infected? I got the flu this year. My symptoms were almost exclusively a fever. No significant aches. I gave myself 2-3 days of 102 fever. Taking no medication, but laying in bed, drinking water, and eating as much as I ibuprofen and the fever broke. I continued taking for the next day, and by the end of the 4th day, I felt fine. It's scary to think I may have just gotten lucky. I don't "know" what the right course of action is. I'd like to believe that letting your body fight the infection visa vi a fever is a good idea, assuming you're healthy enough to take that kind of physical stress. I don't know.
    - 9y ago
euyyn 9y ago
I think anybody that got all conspiranoid about the bird flu and swine flu alarms of the last decade should read the accounts of the Spanish flu, a bird flu. Young adults coughing blood foam. Towns where every single person died. Cities with bodies piled up on the streets because the undertakers died or wouldn't approach them. The WHO raised the alarms because a bad bird flu is alarming.
- thephyber 9y ago
  > read the accounts of the Spanish flu, a bird flu The non-human source of the Spanish Influenza is still debatable.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu_research
  - euyyn 9y ago
    The article and the footnotes make it sound like the real debate is whether it went directly from bird to human, or jumped to swine first. EDIT: The abstract of the paper that questions the origin asserts: > In light of this alternative interpretation, we suggest that the current intense surveillance of influenza viruses should be broadened to include mammalian sources.
AceJohnny2 9y ago
> Computer modelling suggests that if the 1918 H1N1 virus were to break out of the facility in Atlanta it would cause around thirty million deaths. Considering the original death toll of 50-100M deaths, and today's increased population and rapid communication (air flight), that's actually a very impressive number in how low it is. Edit: I wonder how much of the improvement is due to the surviving population's natural immunity?
- rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
  It’s only a model. The housing market crash and the 2016 election show how wrong models can be, even if all the inputs and the formula make sense. They could be off by a factor of ten. In the wrong direction. We won’t know until it’s time.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    The housing market formulas did not make sense. They assumed that default probabilities were uncorrelated.
- dpatrick86 9y ago
  Can they... get rid of it? I'm feeling nervous just reading that.
- h1n111111111 9y ago
  I'd guess the biggest lever in the model is an assumption about using Tamiflu for prevention/treatment. Perhaps also faster detection and coordination between public health entities. AFAIK, immunity to a particular flu strain is acquired through exposure (via infection or vaccine) rather than passed genetically.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    Immune response to the flu does vary across populations. The CDC considers American Indians/Alaska Natives to be at higher risk of complications than the population at large.
CodeWriter23 9y ago
Then there’s this study, which contrasts with the author’s anecdotal statements regarding aspirin use during the Spanish Flu Epidemic. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441 https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441
- da02 9y ago
  Doesn't aspirin also contribute to less Vitamin C absorption in the body? For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6811490 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6811490 I also remember reading an article that mentioned the 1800s led to adoption of artificial fertilizers that contributed to higher crop yields, but less nutritious fruits and vegetables. I thought these factors, plus WWI, led to weaker immune systems and great conditions for infections.
HN15718653 9y ago
Wow, I wish more articles were like this. Just two quick paragraphs of story time, then: fact, fact, fact, fact, fact.
jcadam 9y ago
I get the flu shot every year (I have asthma - otherwise healthy), and have only had the flu a few times in my life. This year, with all of the stories of healthy adults being felled by flu has me nervous. Bah, my germophobic ways (I avoid touching door handles, my face holes, etc.) will hopefully protect me. Except maybe from those jack-holes who need to prove how 'hard' they are by coming to work with a fever. You know who they are because not only do they look like shit, they make sure to announce to everyone that they're sick so that they get 'credit.'
- jansanchez 9y ago
  I also get the flu shot every year but I always catch the flu.
- interfixus 9y ago
  I have integrated the same set of countermeasures[1] in my life for the last ten years or so. And do not consider them in any way phobic. They have reduced my rate rates of infection to exactly zero. I shall step up my defense level an extra notch or two if a serious pan- or epidemic comes around. Some will chide me for squeemishness, but really, I find not sticking my fingers in my mouth an acceptable price for a markedly reduced risk of illness and death. [1] Shopping trolleys and baskets considered harmful
  - roel_v 9y ago
    So what are those countermeasures? Do you wipe down everything you touch when you go shopping?
    - interfixus 9y ago
      Simple stuff. Maintain a flag: Did I touch some probably disgusting surface [trolley/phone/mouse/keyboard/door handle/seat/other people/whatever]? If so, do not touch mouth/nose/eyes/wounds/food until hand properly washed. Is some idiot coughing or sneezing his heart out? Shut my fuck up and breath through the nose. Consider everything brought home from supermarket to have potentially contaminated surfaces (checkout-conveyors are disgusting). That kind of thing. Really just a question of habit. Not in any way going Howard Hughes. I once had a girlfriend who did that (going slightly bonkers from studying medicine (but fine today, and a practicing doctor, better for the experience)), and am well aware of the danger signs.
koheripbal 9y ago
The Plague was one of the major causes of the contraction of Eastern Roman empire. Never underestimate the ability of a disease to shift the balance of political power in the world.

96 points by Vigier 9y ago

beat 9y ago

Last week, someone I know died of this year's influenza. He was 33 years old and reasonably healthy. He got pneumonia, and his heart failed. This is the first time in my life I've experienced a healthy young adult dying of influenza. It's terrifying.

smartscience 9y ago
Sorry to hear. It seems influenza is one of the comparatively few things that can kill us as easily now as it could in the relative dark ages of medicine.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nsgi 9y ago
  I wouldn't say that. One of the main ways flu can kill you is secondary bacterial infection (e.g. pneumonia), and we now have antibiotics for that.
senatorobama 9y ago
Did he not get treated fast enough?
DrScump 9y ago
74 deaths blamed on flu (correctly or not) in California thus far: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/19/california-flu-deaths-jump-from-42-to-74-greater-bay-area-reports-25/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/19/california-flu-deaths...
- koheripbal 9y ago
  Yes, but almost exclusively those who die are immune compromised, under 5 months old, or elderly. What's terrifying is healthy adults dying of flu.
sjg007 9y ago
Did he get the flu shot?
dmckeon 9y ago
Pneumonia vaccine might have prevented such a death - depends on the individual, of course. This option appears to be less well-known than the flu vaccine (and is only reccomended for some of the population). https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/public/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/pneumo/public/index.html
- philjohn 9y ago
  This. I didn't know about it, but the nurse at my GP practise nonchalantly said "Oh, since you're asthmatic you're eligible for the Pneumonia vaccine as well, I'll give it to you now if you want".
- beat 9y ago
  A health care system that isn't a cause of stark financial terror for the poor would have prevented his death. He didn't go to the doctor because he was poor and uninsured, until it was too late.
sgt101 9y ago
I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. One of my friends died at a similar age of a brain infection, another died of a rare form of Leukaemia and one died in his forties of an embolism. We are insulated from the idea of death and we have the impression we are immune. The death of the first of my friends in adulthood changed my life positively, I realised that I had to compromise and choose between my ambitions because endlessly delaying gratification might lead to a bitter and empty funeral. I found a happy and immediate, if less exalted, path. The death of my friend a couple of years ago, of the embolism, wasn't like this - I expected and hoped for more epiphany, but didn't find any meaning or change this time. All I can say to you is that your grief and fear are normal, and that you may find comfort and a way forward in time. We're all looking my friend, and we hope to find before our own end.

drdeadringer 9y ago

A few years ago I read 'The Great Influenza' by John Barry, which includes a historical perspective of US medical history leading up to the 1918 pandemic as well as digging into the pandemic itself. I recommend the book.

Aloha 9y ago
This is a fantastic book - I can wholeheartedly concur with your recommendation.
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  Recommendation thirded. It's one scary and very informative book.
greenyoda 9y ago
The most amazing thing I learned from this book is just how primitive medical practice and training were in the U.S. at the turn of the 20th Century: there were no requirements for doctors to have science education or clinical training. Many doctors had to go to Europe to get better educations. This started changing shortly before the big flu epidemic, and the people - doctors and philanthropists - who brought about the changes were also instrumental in the battle against the flu epidemic. The book is as much a biography of the key players as a history of the events. Also, the book explains how huge numbers of deaths were caused by politicians and bureaucrats. The political machine in one city (Philadelphia, I think) refused to shut down a popular parade, as urged by the health authorities, to stop the spread of the flu. Lots of people needlessly got infected and died. The military packed excessive numbers of WWI recruits into camps designed for a fraction of the number of people, also against the advice of doctors; huge numbers of healthy young men caught the flu and died. And the scientific detective story of how researchers tried to find a cure for the flu was very interesting, with ongoing controversy over what the infectious agent was (virus? bacteria?). We know the answer today, but it wasn't so clear back then. It's a very good read on many levels. Here's a link to the book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036491 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036491

krylon 9y ago

I read somewhere that the Spanish flu was basically what ended the first World War. Not sure if I believe it. In school, I had this history teacher who made a point of telling us - repeatedly - that major historical events can rarely, if ever, be traced to a single cause. But it might have played a significant role. Also, I had no idea at all that it had spread globally. And a lot more people died from it than I had thought. What would happen if such a disease came along today? Are we just lucky that it has not happened, yet?

kingmanaz 9y ago
>major historical events can rarely, if ever, be traced to a single cause. But it might have played a significant role. Along those same lines, several years ago a theory was circulated that the 1918 flu outbreak was made more deadly by the over-prescription of aspirin. The basic argument was that high-doses of fever-reducing medication prevented the body from naturally "heating" the flu virus to death.
maxerickson 9y ago
We are much better equipped to deal with it. They didn't even know what caused it. We know what genes make the virus more lethal, have a good idea how it spreads, have a somewhat effective vaccine and have better supportive care.
loopbit 9y ago
IMHO, no, I don't think it ended WWI, it was probably the end of WWI that spread it globally so fast (plenty of malnourished soldiers going back home). Maybe a bit off-topic, I wholeheartedly agree with your teacher, but even if a historical event has several causes, it's very common for there to be a single trigger that starts the whole thing. Everybody "knows" that the first world war started with the assasination of the archduke Ferdinand, but the causes were many (the alliance between France and Russia, between Germany and Austro-Hungary, the problems in the Balkans between Russia, the Ottoman empire and Austro-Hungary...) As for your question, it probably has happened a few times (avian flu a few years ago?), but medicine is much better now and, on average, the population is healthier. Just these two facts alone make it much more difficult (but not impossible) for something like that from happening again. Another off-topic, but I find it weird that it's called the Spanish flu when, apparently, it started in France. Spain was not part of WWI and didn't have wartime censorship at the time, so it was the first place that started reporting cases of it, but it didn't originate there.

natecavanaugh 9y ago

This is going to sound insanely insensitive, but did he get the vaccine? Actually, it is insensitive, because I would like to either use it in my arguments against anti-vaxxers, or learn where I went wrong. I honestly worry about friends who don't vaccinate their kids, and I'd appreciate either vindication, or piece of mind that I shouldn't look for goblins ;)

kleer001 9y ago
IMHO getting vaccinated is more about herd immunity. Everyone I've ever heard who proclaimed heartily that they don't get vax either said it makes them sick or they never get sick. The first is unlikely, but some people do have reactions. It's more likely they had a coincidental cold or a psychosomatic reaction. The second is irrelevant. Getting a vaccination isn't about YOU, it's about the vulnerable people around you and the vulnerable that will interact with the people around you. Also you could be infected and have no symptoms, so pass it around without knowing. But I'm sure you already know that. I'm only mentioning it for fuel against the antivaxers you engage with, because they're endangering us all and need to be stopped.
- phaus 9y ago
  >IMHO getting vaccinated is more about herd immunity. Everyone I've ever heard who proclaimed heartily that they don't get vax either said it makes them sick or they never get sick. Its not a psychosomatic reaction. People frequently get minor, flu-like symptoms for a few days after getting a vaccine. While its not as severe as having the flu, people feel "sick" and so they accurately describe themselves as having gotten sick from the flu vaccine because it makes far more sense to talk about these things in the context of the way they make us feel, and no sense at all to talk about the underlying science behind vaccines that doesn't magically make us feel better just because its technically correct. I get minor, flu like symptoms, which are still a pain in the ass, about 85% of the time when I get a flu vaccine (which is every year). Its still significantly better than getting the flu, but its pretty obnoxious that the medical community tries to shame people for noting the objective fact that getting a vaccine is still rather unpleasant. Its like our society is incapable of understanding nuance. You're forced to either take the side of anti-vax lunatics or pretend that vaccines have no side-effects. Also, about your comment on the vaccination being for the good of the "herd". That's mostly correct, but it doesn't tell the whole story. According to the CDC, if you get vaccinated and then get the flu, the severity of it will be somewhat lessened and the chances of it becoming a severe illness will be reduced. So its still allegedly worth it for the individual.

Aloha 9y ago

Bear in mind, another 1918 like flu will come - and even modern medicine is basically helpless to stop it - we just know better how to treat it.

z3t4 9y ago
There is a flu almost every year. And we're pretty good at making vaccines. A couple of years ago there was a "training" in Sweden where every citizen was called in for mass vaccination. You didn't have to take it, but most people did. First medicine personnel, then pregnant, children and elders, then everyone else. If there is a dangerous flue like the Spanish Flu again, this is probably what will happen.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  Exactly, we have knowledge now and this knowledge will help us - everyone has heard of the swine flu for instance
  - DrScump 9y ago
    The 1976 Swine Flu[0] is not a vaccination success story. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#1976_U.S._outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#1976_U.S._outb...
- knz 9y ago
  I'm surprised they don't mail the injections out instead of requiring people to assemble (a great place to spread disease). The movie Contagion was partially set where I live in Minnesota - it contained depictions of people assembling for food, vaccines, treatment, and mass burial. Seeing local landmarks in the movie made it feel very real and made me think more about emergency preparedness.
beamatronic 9y ago
With global instant communication we could now can quarantine ourselves in our homes universally and on very short notice.

z3t4 9y ago

It might have been a biological weapon. I don't think anyone want to take credit for it though.

tzahola 9y ago

It’s fascinating that we had the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics at the time, yet we don’t know to this day why the Spanish flu was so deadly. Another puzzling disease that appeared at that time and have disappeared since then was encephalitis lethargica: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis_lethargica https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encephalitis_lethargica Some hypothesize that the two were in fact related.

sargare 9y ago
Some years ago I got the flu and two days later I became unconscious, went to a coma for five days. It took atleast six month for the hallucinations and the body aches to stop. Doctor said it was Viral Encephalitis. Worst days of my life, but still lucky to be alive.
- tzahola 9y ago
  Wow, encephalitis is no joke! You’re lucky to be alive. May I ask how old were you at the time?
  - sargare 9y ago
    I was 26 at that time.
- rubicon33 9y ago
  That's terrifying. Can I ask - how did you treat the flu once you knew you were infected? I got the flu this year. My symptoms were almost exclusively a fever. No significant aches. I gave myself 2-3 days of 102 fever. Taking no medication, but laying in bed, drinking water, and eating as much as I ibuprofen and the fever broke. I continued taking for the next day, and by the end of the 4th day, I felt fine. It's scary to think I may have just gotten lucky. I don't "know" what the right course of action is. I'd like to believe that letting your body fight the infection visa vi a fever is a good idea, assuming you're healthy enough to take that kind of physical stress. I don't know.
  - 9y ago

euyyn 9y ago

I think anybody that got all conspiranoid about the bird flu and swine flu alarms of the last decade should read the accounts of the Spanish flu, a bird flu. Young adults coughing blood foam. Towns where every single person died. Cities with bodies piled up on the streets because the undertakers died or wouldn't approach them. The WHO raised the alarms because a bad bird flu is alarming.

thephyber 9y ago
> read the accounts of the Spanish flu, a bird flu The non-human source of the Spanish Influenza is still debatable.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu_research
- euyyn 9y ago
  The article and the footnotes make it sound like the real debate is whether it went directly from bird to human, or jumped to swine first. EDIT: The abstract of the paper that questions the origin asserts: > In light of this alternative interpretation, we suggest that the current intense surveillance of influenza viruses should be broadened to include mammalian sources.

AceJohnny2 9y ago

> Computer modelling suggests that if the 1918 H1N1 virus were to break out of the facility in Atlanta it would cause around thirty million deaths. Considering the original death toll of 50-100M deaths, and today's increased population and rapid communication (air flight), that's actually a very impressive number in how low it is. Edit: I wonder how much of the improvement is due to the surviving population's natural immunity?

rm_-rf_slash 9y ago
It’s only a model. The housing market crash and the 2016 election show how wrong models can be, even if all the inputs and the formula make sense. They could be off by a factor of ten. In the wrong direction. We won’t know until it’s time.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  The housing market formulas did not make sense. They assumed that default probabilities were uncorrelated.
dpatrick86 9y ago
Can they... get rid of it? I'm feeling nervous just reading that.
h1n111111111 9y ago
I'd guess the biggest lever in the model is an assumption about using Tamiflu for prevention/treatment. Perhaps also faster detection and coordination between public health entities. AFAIK, immunity to a particular flu strain is acquired through exposure (via infection or vaccine) rather than passed genetically.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  Immune response to the flu does vary across populations. The CDC considers American Indians/Alaska Natives to be at higher risk of complications than the population at large.

CodeWriter23 9y ago

Then there’s this study, which contrasts with the author’s anecdotal statements regarding aspirin use during the Spanish Flu Epidemic. https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441 https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/49/9/1405/301441

da02 9y ago
Doesn't aspirin also contribute to less Vitamin C absorption in the body? For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6811490 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6811490 I also remember reading an article that mentioned the 1800s led to adoption of artificial fertilizers that contributed to higher crop yields, but less nutritious fruits and vegetables. I thought these factors, plus WWI, led to weaker immune systems and great conditions for infections.

HN15718653 9y ago

Wow, I wish more articles were like this. Just two quick paragraphs of story time, then: fact, fact, fact, fact, fact.

jcadam 9y ago

I get the flu shot every year (I have asthma - otherwise healthy), and have only had the flu a few times in my life. This year, with all of the stories of healthy adults being felled by flu has me nervous. Bah, my germophobic ways (I avoid touching door handles, my face holes, etc.) will hopefully protect me. Except maybe from those jack-holes who need to prove how 'hard' they are by coming to work with a fever. You know who they are because not only do they look like shit, they make sure to announce to everyone that they're sick so that they get 'credit.'

jansanchez 9y ago
I also get the flu shot every year but I always catch the flu.
interfixus 9y ago
I have integrated the same set of countermeasures[1] in my life for the last ten years or so. And do not consider them in any way phobic. They have reduced my rate rates of infection to exactly zero. I shall step up my defense level an extra notch or two if a serious pan- or epidemic comes around. Some will chide me for squeemishness, but really, I find not sticking my fingers in my mouth an acceptable price for a markedly reduced risk of illness and death. [1] Shopping trolleys and baskets considered harmful
- roel_v 9y ago
  So what are those countermeasures? Do you wipe down everything you touch when you go shopping?
  - interfixus 9y ago
    Simple stuff. Maintain a flag: Did I touch some probably disgusting surface [trolley/phone/mouse/keyboard/door handle/seat/other people/whatever]? If so, do not touch mouth/nose/eyes/wounds/food until hand properly washed. Is some idiot coughing or sneezing his heart out? Shut my fuck up and breath through the nose. Consider everything brought home from supermarket to have potentially contaminated surfaces (checkout-conveyors are disgusting). That kind of thing. Really just a question of habit. Not in any way going Howard Hughes. I once had a girlfriend who did that (going slightly bonkers from studying medicine (but fine today, and a practicing doctor, better for the experience)), and am well aware of the danger signs.

koheripbal 9y ago

The Plague was one of the major causes of the contraction of Eastern Roman empire. Never underestimate the ability of a disease to shift the balance of political power in the world.