6 ms·

In a negative connotation: because insurance companies and hospital owners are taking you for a ride and politicians sit back, sipping their whiskeys and enjoy

In a negative connotation: because insurance companies and hospital owners are taking you for a ride and politicians sit back, sipping their whiskeys and enjoy their lobbying. And if anyone DARES to make such comparisons to Sweden or Finland, some republican will start yelling "down with socialism!!!". One day USA's citizens will "have enough of this" and perhaps do something about this, but this day is anything but close.

riffraff 9y ago
I think it's not just Sweden or Finland, most of Europe has socialized healthcare and birth is one of the things that come free. AFAIU in general you pay for stuff like private rooms or such.
- Carioca 9y ago
  Germany and Switzerland have complicated systems where you are mandated to have insurance but the state provides you with insurance if you cannot afford it.
- senorjazz 9y ago
  Can confirm, wife had an emergency c section in the UK, cost $0
  - wil421 9y ago
    Why does the UK still have private insurance? I had a long conversation with a colleague in London but I couldn’t grasp the use case.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - ethnicify 9y ago
      For non-national-health-service private care. For the rich, basically. NHS is free, but has its issues with inconsistent service and long(!) wait times. Private is hit and miss, but significantly faster and significantly(!) more expensive. Hence the insurance.
- HenryBemis 9y ago
  I used Finland and Sweden as they have dreamy metrics on everything-healthcare, but I understand that taxes are sky-high. In these countries I consider taxes to be an "investment" and when you need the State, then the State is there FOR YOU, and doesn't throw you under the bus in a time of need. In some other European countries (e.g. the PIIGS) with the budget cuts, all social care/benefits have worsened dramatically.
  - natecavanaugh 9y ago
    This has given me a lot to think about, because I have felt like I've been on both sides of the line, but, I have of course because it's suited me when I need it. I feel like government is still not the right institution to make purchasing decisions, but until we make one, it's unbeatable. But, this might also be cultural. People who come to the US are usually willing to take high risks and carry with that a certain sense of irritation with those who don't, and I feel like that might be where a lot of our national culture carries with it this sort of perspective. I could of course be super wrong, but I think if we could erase the concept of "fairness" in this area, we might make more progress in actually helping real people with real problems
  - stevekemp 9y ago
    I moved to Finland a while back. Taxes are indeed sky-high, but at the same time I can see that they're being used. Streets are clean, local transport works (busses, trams, local-trains), education is world-leading, healthcare is great, etc, etc. I'm sure there are people scamming money off the top, corruption is universal, but I can't begrudge paying taxes when the country seems to be so well run. (I'm a foreigner, I suspect I wouldn't know if it were badly run!)
- jaclaz 9y ago
  >I think it's not just Sweden or Finland, most of Europe has socialized healthcare and birth is one of the things that come free. AFAIU in general you pay for stuff like private rooms or such. I can confirm this is the case for both Italy and Spain. But I have to say that sometimes, even if the National Health Service does provide for free[1] a given cure or analysis (or assistance to birth), in some cases they may be not fast enough (not for the actual delivery, but for some exams/tests) and there are private services (hospitals, diagnostic clinics, etc.) where sometimes you need to go, paying out cash (or - it is now becoming more common - having a dedicated insurance). In my experience these - though not actually "cheap" - are anyway a fraction of the costs they I have seen mentioned about the US. While the average income in Italy and Spain is lower than the US, the cost of these services is proportionally much, much lower. A problem - common enough - has been in recent years the increase in the number of Ceasarian sections, even when there wasn't any need for it, allegedly (but it has not been actually proven) to increase the reimburse to the hospital by the NHS (SSN in italian) or by the insurance company, or to limit the legal responsibility of the doctor in case of complications. [1] Actually almost for free, there is a complicated system where depending on your income level you may pay a part of the cost.
plehoux 9y ago
Quebec, Canada == free + 1 year maternity leave at 75% of your salary + a lot $$ by both Quebec province and federal governments.
- koolba 9y ago
  Who pays the 75% salary when you're not working? Does it come from the company you were employed at, the government, or some combo?
  - Voloskaya 9y ago
    The government only (at least in Québec).
    - maehwasu 9y ago
      Aka the other Canadian provinces.
      - Voloskaya 9y ago
        QPIP is deducted directly from Québec's employees salary at the source, so no, not in this case :)
  - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
    You do, through taxes, but would you rather pay lower taxes for fewer benefits and more aircraft carriers in the US, or more taxes for huge benefits like maternity leave and education?
    - koolba 9y ago
      Speaking selfishly, I can’t get pregnant and primary education is primarily funded by local property taxes so I’m for the lower overall taxes.
      - 9y ago
tyingq 9y ago
I think that's some of it, but there's probably other causes too. Like malpractice risk driving certain decisions about care and US specific cultural expectations around the role of nurses or midwives, pain management, etc.
guelo 9y ago
> One day USA's citizens will "have enough of this" Won't happen because a big portion of the middle class doesn't experience these problems so they just shrug it off and see it as only a problem for "those" people.
dang 9y ago
Would you please not post ideological rants to Hacker News? These things invariably turn into low-quality discussions and/or flamewars, dragging down the quality of the site. You don't have to change your views to post here, but you do need to post civilly and thoughtfully, rather than in rant/battle mode. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

riffraff 9y ago

I think it's not just Sweden or Finland, most of Europe has socialized healthcare and birth is one of the things that come free. AFAIU in general you pay for stuff like private rooms or such.

Carioca 9y ago
Germany and Switzerland have complicated systems where you are mandated to have insurance but the state provides you with insurance if you cannot afford it.
senorjazz 9y ago
Can confirm, wife had an emergency c section in the UK, cost $0
- wil421 9y ago
  Why does the UK still have private insurance? I had a long conversation with a colleague in London but I couldn’t grasp the use case.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - ethnicify 9y ago
    For non-national-health-service private care. For the rich, basically. NHS is free, but has its issues with inconsistent service and long(!) wait times. Private is hit and miss, but significantly faster and significantly(!) more expensive. Hence the insurance.
HenryBemis 9y ago
I used Finland and Sweden as they have dreamy metrics on everything-healthcare, but I understand that taxes are sky-high. In these countries I consider taxes to be an "investment" and when you need the State, then the State is there FOR YOU, and doesn't throw you under the bus in a time of need. In some other European countries (e.g. the PIIGS) with the budget cuts, all social care/benefits have worsened dramatically.
- natecavanaugh 9y ago
  This has given me a lot to think about, because I have felt like I've been on both sides of the line, but, I have of course because it's suited me when I need it. I feel like government is still not the right institution to make purchasing decisions, but until we make one, it's unbeatable. But, this might also be cultural. People who come to the US are usually willing to take high risks and carry with that a certain sense of irritation with those who don't, and I feel like that might be where a lot of our national culture carries with it this sort of perspective. I could of course be super wrong, but I think if we could erase the concept of "fairness" in this area, we might make more progress in actually helping real people with real problems
- stevekemp 9y ago
  I moved to Finland a while back. Taxes are indeed sky-high, but at the same time I can see that they're being used. Streets are clean, local transport works (busses, trams, local-trains), education is world-leading, healthcare is great, etc, etc. I'm sure there are people scamming money off the top, corruption is universal, but I can't begrudge paying taxes when the country seems to be so well run. (I'm a foreigner, I suspect I wouldn't know if it were badly run!)
jaclaz 9y ago
>I think it's not just Sweden or Finland, most of Europe has socialized healthcare and birth is one of the things that come free. AFAIU in general you pay for stuff like private rooms or such. I can confirm this is the case for both Italy and Spain. But I have to say that sometimes, even if the National Health Service does provide for free[1] a given cure or analysis (or assistance to birth), in some cases they may be not fast enough (not for the actual delivery, but for some exams/tests) and there are private services (hospitals, diagnostic clinics, etc.) where sometimes you need to go, paying out cash (or - it is now becoming more common - having a dedicated insurance). In my experience these - though not actually "cheap" - are anyway a fraction of the costs they I have seen mentioned about the US. While the average income in Italy and Spain is lower than the US, the cost of these services is proportionally much, much lower. A problem - common enough - has been in recent years the increase in the number of Ceasarian sections, even when there wasn't any need for it, allegedly (but it has not been actually proven) to increase the reimburse to the hospital by the NHS (SSN in italian) or by the insurance company, or to limit the legal responsibility of the doctor in case of complications. [1] Actually almost for free, there is a complicated system where depending on your income level you may pay a part of the cost.

plehoux 9y ago

Quebec, Canada == free + 1 year maternity leave at 75% of your salary + a lot $$ by both Quebec province and federal governments.

koolba 9y ago
Who pays the 75% salary when you're not working? Does it come from the company you were employed at, the government, or some combo?
- Voloskaya 9y ago
  The government only (at least in Québec).
  - maehwasu 9y ago
    Aka the other Canadian provinces.
    - Voloskaya 9y ago
      QPIP is deducted directly from Québec's employees salary at the source, so no, not in this case :)
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  You do, through taxes, but would you rather pay lower taxes for fewer benefits and more aircraft carriers in the US, or more taxes for huge benefits like maternity leave and education?
  - koolba 9y ago
    Speaking selfishly, I can’t get pregnant and primary education is primarily funded by local property taxes so I’m for the lower overall taxes.
    - 9y ago

tyingq 9y ago

I think that's some of it, but there's probably other causes too. Like malpractice risk driving certain decisions about care and US specific cultural expectations around the role of nurses or midwives, pain management, etc.

guelo 9y ago

> One day USA's citizens will "have enough of this" Won't happen because a big portion of the middle class doesn't experience these problems so they just shrug it off and see it as only a problem for "those" people.

dang 9y ago

Would you please not post ideological rants to Hacker News? These things invariably turn into low-quality discussions and/or flamewars, dragging down the quality of the site. You don't have to change your views to post here, but you do need to post civilly and thoughtfully, rather than in rant/battle mode. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html