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It's like they don't realize that what they attribute to "talent" is attainable through practice and hard work. When I point that out and encourage them to just

by dkarl 9y ago

It's like they don't realize that what they attribute to "talent" is attainable through practice and hard work. When I point that out and encourage them to just try, that it might be fun, they make some other excuse. That's a bit of a bait and switch, to say, why not try this simple thing just for fun, and then say all it takes is a lot of practice and hard work. Not only do you have to make a long-term commitment that this is going to be one of the few things in your life that you invest a lot of time and energy in, you also have to either enjoy being bad at it (which is even harder as an adult than it is when you're a kid) or stick with it through a lot of thankless effort.

chillwaves 9y ago
> enjoy being bad at it You don't have to enjoy being bad, you just have to value the process of getting good more than the pain of being bad.
- gagege 9y ago
  You just explained the reason I don't like writing fiction. I do not enjoy the process of writing more than the pain of being bad at it. I've been trying to write for years but just can not seem to enjoy it. It's a hobby that feels awfully like work, yet I keep coming back to it.
pmoriarty 9y ago
"That's a bit of a bait and switch, to say, why not try this simple thing just for fun, and then say all it takes is a lot of practice and hard work." These aren't mutually exclusive. You could have fun doing something and yet still take a lot of time and effort to master it. It's like playing the violin -- something that most people understand takes years and years of effort to master. Most people wouldn't expect to pick up a violin and instantly be able to come out with a virtuoso performance. But for other arts it seems that that's exactly the expectation that they have. If their objection to a suggestion to try drawing is to say, "Oh, no, I'm no good at drawing" my reply would be: "Well, yeah, that's because you haven't practiced drawing. Why would you even expect to be good at drawing when you just start?" On the other hand, just because you can't yet get the ultimate results you're after when you start doesn't mean you can't have fun trying. There's some visceral enjoyment that can come from handling art materials like charcoal, paints, or clay and using them to create and express yourself -- an enjoyment that non-artists rarely have any idea is there, and will continue to be oblivious to as long as they refuse to try. The same goes for musical instruments. You can have fun just playing around with them, even if you don't know what you're doing and have no training whatsoever. When I encourage non-artists and non-musicians to give making art or music a try, I'm not trying to get them to immediately invest 10,000 hours of grueling practice nor to paint the Mona Lisa for me. I'm encouraging them to just try for five minutes, ten minutes, half an hour... just to maybe experience some of the joy that could be there for them.

by dkarl 9y ago

chillwaves 9y ago

> enjoy being bad at it You don't have to enjoy being bad, you just have to value the process of getting good more than the pain of being bad.

gagege 9y ago
You just explained the reason I don't like writing fiction. I do not enjoy the process of writing more than the pain of being bad at it. I've been trying to write for years but just can not seem to enjoy it. It's a hobby that feels awfully like work, yet I keep coming back to it.

pmoriarty 9y ago

"That's a bit of a bait and switch, to say, why not try this simple thing just for fun, and then say all it takes is a lot of practice and hard work." These aren't mutually exclusive. You could have fun doing something and yet still take a lot of time and effort to master it. It's like playing the violin -- something that most people understand takes years and years of effort to master. Most people wouldn't expect to pick up a violin and instantly be able to come out with a virtuoso performance. But for other arts it seems that that's exactly the expectation that they have. If their objection to a suggestion to try drawing is to say, "Oh, no, I'm no good at drawing" my reply would be: "Well, yeah, that's because you haven't practiced drawing. Why would you even expect to be good at drawing when you just start?" On the other hand, just because you can't yet get the ultimate results you're after when you start doesn't mean you can't have fun trying. There's some visceral enjoyment that can come from handling art materials like charcoal, paints, or clay and using them to create and express yourself -- an enjoyment that non-artists rarely have any idea is there, and will continue to be oblivious to as long as they refuse to try. The same goes for musical instruments. You can have fun just playing around with them, even if you don't know what you're doing and have no training whatsoever. When I encourage non-artists and non-musicians to give making art or music a try, I'm not trying to get them to immediately invest 10,000 hours of grueling practice nor to paint the Mona Lisa for me. I'm encouraging them to just try for five minutes, ten minutes, half an hour... just to maybe experience some of the joy that could be there for them.