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There are some 4 or 5 new pronoun classes, totally over 30+ new gender pronouns recognized by some transgender rights activists. This UW LGBT Resource Center li

There are some 4 or 5 new pronoun classes, totally over 30+ new gender pronouns recognized by some transgender rights activists. This UW LGBT Resource Center lists an additional 7 pronoun classes, totaling 35 new pronouns [1]. So imagine the typical college professor. They've got what? Three or four classes of up to 50 or 60 students? So you want them remember not only each student's name, but also which of these new pronoun class they prefer, as well as the proper declination of that pronoun class? And if someone prefers not to do this, it's because they're an asshole? My guess is that Peterson would have been happy to try to use preferred pronouns for his students, if only he weren't being forced to do so by some human rights act about pronouns and coerced by various activists groups. He's basically said as much before. For the record, I'm in favor of most transgender rights issues (re: employment, anti-violence, identity documents, etc). But you can't go passing laws to force changes in attitude. US lawmakers did the right thing by passing civil rights laws in the 1960s, but those lawmakers didn't then go and outlaw the use of the n-word. That would have been a bridge too far. People have to learn from those around them what is and isn't appropriate. You can't just force them to think and speak the way you want by force of law. Or at least, we don't typically try to do that in free societies. 1. http://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/ http://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

beat 9y ago
It's very simple, really. You use what seems obvious, and if someone corrects you in one-on-one conversation, you finish the conversation doing the best you can to respect their wishes. And if you screw up, you apologize and self-correct. We're not talking about 200 students in this case. We're talking about one on one conversation with one person. That's when pronouns matter. Being unhappy about coercive regulation is an entirely separate issue from trying to do the decent and not terribly difficult thing. And using the coercion as justification for not doing it is, bluntly, an excuse. It's turning around and claiming yourself the victim of what you do to others.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > We're not talking about 200 students in this case. We're talking about one on one conversation with one person. That's when pronouns matter. Professors never engage in one-on-one conversation with their students? And they never refer to their students in the third-person within the classroom? > And using the coercion as justification for not doing it is, bluntly, an excuse. It's turning around and claiming yourself the victim of what you do to others. I don't think Peterson sees himself as a victim, at all. I think he's alarmed and outraged that proscriptive laws governing his speech have been passed. And as an American who's pretty happy with our 1st amendment, I agree with him. I mean, forget for a moment that this is concerning transgender rights. If a country like Canada continues to outlaw certain ways of speaking, at what point would that concern you? Or would it ever?
  - beat 9y ago
    I fail to see the distinction between "he's alarmed and outraged that proscriptive laws governing his speech have been passed", and seeing himself as a victim of oppression. But this distinction seems very important to some people, who object to my characterization of him as a self-styled victim of oppression. Just because he doesn't use the word "oppression" in that context doesn't mean it isn't his broad meaning. Coercion and oppression are more or less interchangeable.
- erik_seaberg 9y ago
  "You" is not gendered, only third-person pronouns are in English.

beat 9y ago

It's very simple, really. You use what seems obvious, and if someone corrects you in one-on-one conversation, you finish the conversation doing the best you can to respect their wishes. And if you screw up, you apologize and self-correct. We're not talking about 200 students in this case. We're talking about one on one conversation with one person. That's when pronouns matter. Being unhappy about coercive regulation is an entirely separate issue from trying to do the decent and not terribly difficult thing. And using the coercion as justification for not doing it is, bluntly, an excuse. It's turning around and claiming yourself the victim of what you do to others.

jnbiche 9y ago
> We're not talking about 200 students in this case. We're talking about one on one conversation with one person. That's when pronouns matter. Professors never engage in one-on-one conversation with their students? And they never refer to their students in the third-person within the classroom? > And using the coercion as justification for not doing it is, bluntly, an excuse. It's turning around and claiming yourself the victim of what you do to others. I don't think Peterson sees himself as a victim, at all. I think he's alarmed and outraged that proscriptive laws governing his speech have been passed. And as an American who's pretty happy with our 1st amendment, I agree with him. I mean, forget for a moment that this is concerning transgender rights. If a country like Canada continues to outlaw certain ways of speaking, at what point would that concern you? Or would it ever?
- beat 9y ago
  I fail to see the distinction between "he's alarmed and outraged that proscriptive laws governing his speech have been passed", and seeing himself as a victim of oppression. But this distinction seems very important to some people, who object to my characterization of him as a self-styled victim of oppression. Just because he doesn't use the word "oppression" in that context doesn't mean it isn't his broad meaning. Coercion and oppression are more or less interchangeable.
erik_seaberg 9y ago
"You" is not gendered, only third-person pronouns are in English.