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Slack is an excellent product with a seemingly top-notch engineering team. But Slack has had multiple published security events the last couple of years. Includ

Slack is an excellent product with a seemingly top-notch engineering team. But Slack has had multiple published security events the last couple of years. Including a DATABASE BREACH. E.g. someone either left a db open to the public, or didn't have ssh password auth disabled, or any number of no-brainer security practices. Again, no hate for Slack -- growing as fast as they have is an incredible feat. But heavybit is, um, pushing the definition of "secure" with that title. LOL. * https://slackhq.com/march-2015-security-incident-and-the-launch-of-two-factor-authentication-3cdcc8efba29 https://slackhq.com/march-2015-security-incident-and-the-lau... * https://www.wired.com/2017/03/hack-brief-slack-bug-everyones-worst-office-nightmare/ https://www.wired.com/2017/03/hack-brief-slack-bug-everyones...

fossuser 9y ago
These breaches were before Geoff (the interviewee) left Palantir and started at Slack, so it's possible things are in a better place now.
welder 9y ago
I'm getting used to Heavybit producing crappy podcasts, for example they claimed my website had 100k users when it had around half that amount: https://twitter.com/WakaTime/status/954541663463948289 https://twitter.com/WakaTime/status/954541663463948289
- disc 9y ago
  Honest question, do you think a 2x factor of error is all that significant? Maybe it's just my EE background (where everything is measured in logs) but anything within an order of magnitude seems accurate enough for me.
  - mlevental 9y ago
    50k and 100k strictly speaking are an order of magnitude different so what's your point exactly?
    - cglace 9y ago
      It's 2x not an order of magnitude.
      - jaggederest 9y ago
        2x is an order of magnitude in binary scales, which is what you should probably be using if you're working with computers. 2^16, 2^32, and 2^64 are a lot easier to understand than 6.5 * 10^3, 4.2 * 10^9, and 1.8 * 10^19
  - welder 9y ago
    It's not about how significant the error, but that they don't care about their quality. When they interview someone without verifying that person actually works for a company, it shows they don't care about their quality. They could fix it afterwards, but they don't even do that.
  - dingo_bat 9y ago
    Are you being serious? Saying you have 100k users when you actually have 50k is not fine, no matter your background. Hell, is it fine if I take an appliance that works on 110V and plug it into a 220V outlet? I'm also an electrical engineer and measuring everything in log scales doesn't excuse lying.
anticodon 9y ago
Slack is not an excellent product. When I'm using 3g tethered connection Slack experience is unbearable. It constantly loses connection. Why is simple text chat is so bandwidth hungry. I'm surw it's due to bad engineering. IRC was much more reliable on much worse connections.
- RyanZAG 9y ago
  People often confuse engineering and design. Slack has a very good design team, the UX is far above IRC or competing solutions and everything flows and works in a way that most users expect. The engineering itself is not the strong point, that's for sure. Slow, bandwidth hungry, memory intensive, strange syncing problems, security issues, etc.
  - crdoconnor 9y ago
    It's certainly pretty. It reminds me of that quote by Joel Spolsky - "people ridiculously overvalue aesthetics and beauty when evaluating products. It's one of the reasons iPods, and, for that matter, Keanu Reeves, are so successful." I don't think usability-wise it's all that great though. If you have multiple chatrooms in multiple slack organizations, it's a PITA checking on them all, for instance.
    - ajsharp 9y ago
      On Spolsky's quote, wouldn't that mean people undervalue aesthetics and beauty?
      - hansl_ 9y ago
        Engineers undervalue it, users overvalue it compared to other criteria. Mostly because users are not engineers and so have no way to look at why a product is engineeringly superior; they can only look at how easy/simple it is to use.
  - swiley 9y ago
    I really would disagree. IRC didn't have a lot going on, you had channels and PMs and that was kind of it. It was very easy to learn how to use because there was very little to learn. Not to mention, in most clients, it took significantly less than ten seconds for the text to appear on the screen after you started typing.
shard972 9y ago
If they had a top notch engineering team somebody should have tested their product on a non stable internet connection. Living out the country now and I now dream of going back to IRC just for the ability to read messages while offline.
friendly_chap 9y ago
Slack ruins all my laptops from $3000+ latest Macbooks to my HP Pavillion - it eats up memory like Crazy. Using Slack for 2 years now and they still havent fixed it.
- gumby 9y ago
  Sadly it’s the future, now electron apps are mainstream. Im not sure what they are doing with all their billions
- ballenf 9y ago
  Maybe not an option for you, but I don't leave it running on my desktop and instead rely on the mobile app for notifications and then pop into the desktop app if I need to engage extensively.
swiley 9y ago
>Slack is an excellent product I used to think maybe it could have been before I was required to use it last year, but no, it's not. It is the worst chat application I have ever used (maybe tinder is worse heh, but at least the keyboard latency is below a second.) It's almost comical how bad it is.
- scopecreep 9y ago
  Slack was described to me as IRC + tmux for people too stupid to figure out irc & tmux. In my (limited) experience this seems true to me.
- ballenf 9y ago
  Could your view be slightly tinged by being required to use it at work? I've used Slack for a couple years in purely open source / social / educational settings and can't really fathom how it could be described as comically bad. There are aspects I dislike, but overall it feels like it solves pretty well the problem it set out to address. A lot of the hate seems to be around the the fact that it gives employers yet another method of disturbing work flow and creating accountability around meaningless metrics (response time or participation in pointless chats). Instead of increasing productivity, it turns the entire workday into a meeting, with all the downsides of a traditional meeting. But, again, those are all complaints about the setting and expectations surrounding the product, not the product itself. Slack is quite good at what it does, by any reasonable measure in my view.

fossuser 9y ago

These breaches were before Geoff (the interviewee) left Palantir and started at Slack, so it's possible things are in a better place now.

welder 9y ago

I'm getting used to Heavybit producing crappy podcasts, for example they claimed my website had 100k users when it had around half that amount: https://twitter.com/WakaTime/status/954541663463948289 https://twitter.com/WakaTime/status/954541663463948289

disc 9y ago
Honest question, do you think a 2x factor of error is all that significant? Maybe it's just my EE background (where everything is measured in logs) but anything within an order of magnitude seems accurate enough for me.
- mlevental 9y ago
  50k and 100k strictly speaking are an order of magnitude different so what's your point exactly?
  - cglace 9y ago
    It's 2x not an order of magnitude.
    - jaggederest 9y ago
      2x is an order of magnitude in binary scales, which is what you should probably be using if you're working with computers. 2^16, 2^32, and 2^64 are a lot easier to understand than 6.5 * 10^3, 4.2 * 10^9, and 1.8 * 10^19
- welder 9y ago
  It's not about how significant the error, but that they don't care about their quality. When they interview someone without verifying that person actually works for a company, it shows they don't care about their quality. They could fix it afterwards, but they don't even do that.
- dingo_bat 9y ago
  Are you being serious? Saying you have 100k users when you actually have 50k is not fine, no matter your background. Hell, is it fine if I take an appliance that works on 110V and plug it into a 220V outlet? I'm also an electrical engineer and measuring everything in log scales doesn't excuse lying.

anticodon 9y ago

Slack is not an excellent product. When I'm using 3g tethered connection Slack experience is unbearable. It constantly loses connection. Why is simple text chat is so bandwidth hungry. I'm surw it's due to bad engineering. IRC was much more reliable on much worse connections.

RyanZAG 9y ago
People often confuse engineering and design. Slack has a very good design team, the UX is far above IRC or competing solutions and everything flows and works in a way that most users expect. The engineering itself is not the strong point, that's for sure. Slow, bandwidth hungry, memory intensive, strange syncing problems, security issues, etc.
- crdoconnor 9y ago
  It's certainly pretty. It reminds me of that quote by Joel Spolsky - "people ridiculously overvalue aesthetics and beauty when evaluating products. It's one of the reasons iPods, and, for that matter, Keanu Reeves, are so successful." I don't think usability-wise it's all that great though. If you have multiple chatrooms in multiple slack organizations, it's a PITA checking on them all, for instance.
  - ajsharp 9y ago
    On Spolsky's quote, wouldn't that mean people undervalue aesthetics and beauty?
    - hansl_ 9y ago
      Engineers undervalue it, users overvalue it compared to other criteria. Mostly because users are not engineers and so have no way to look at why a product is engineeringly superior; they can only look at how easy/simple it is to use.
- swiley 9y ago
  I really would disagree. IRC didn't have a lot going on, you had channels and PMs and that was kind of it. It was very easy to learn how to use because there was very little to learn. Not to mention, in most clients, it took significantly less than ten seconds for the text to appear on the screen after you started typing.

shard972 9y ago

If they had a top notch engineering team somebody should have tested their product on a non stable internet connection. Living out the country now and I now dream of going back to IRC just for the ability to read messages while offline.

friendly_chap 9y ago

Slack ruins all my laptops from $3000+ latest Macbooks to my HP Pavillion - it eats up memory like Crazy. Using Slack for 2 years now and they still havent fixed it.

gumby 9y ago
Sadly it’s the future, now electron apps are mainstream. Im not sure what they are doing with all their billions
ballenf 9y ago
Maybe not an option for you, but I don't leave it running on my desktop and instead rely on the mobile app for notifications and then pop into the desktop app if I need to engage extensively.

swiley 9y ago

>Slack is an excellent product I used to think maybe it could have been before I was required to use it last year, but no, it's not. It is the worst chat application I have ever used (maybe tinder is worse heh, but at least the keyboard latency is below a second.) It's almost comical how bad it is.

scopecreep 9y ago
Slack was described to me as IRC + tmux for people too stupid to figure out irc & tmux. In my (limited) experience this seems true to me.
ballenf 9y ago
Could your view be slightly tinged by being required to use it at work? I've used Slack for a couple years in purely open source / social / educational settings and can't really fathom how it could be described as comically bad. There are aspects I dislike, but overall it feels like it solves pretty well the problem it set out to address. A lot of the hate seems to be around the the fact that it gives employers yet another method of disturbing work flow and creating accountability around meaningless metrics (response time or participation in pointless chats). Instead of increasing productivity, it turns the entire workday into a meeting, with all the downsides of a traditional meeting. But, again, those are all complaints about the setting and expectations surrounding the product, not the product itself. Slack is quite good at what it does, by any reasonable measure in my view.