8 ms·

It's an improvement over the pre-EU situation, where every country was independent and shipping something 100 miles to a neighboring country would require custo

by tlb 9y ago

It's an improvement over the pre-EU situation, where every country was independent and shipping something 100 miles to a neighboring country would require customs declarations and tariffs and possibly complying with different labeling laws, assuming the countries weren't actually at war with each other at the time. Tax authorities systematically underestimate how much they harm the economy through complexity.

Silhouette 9y ago
The VAT MOSS scheme we're talking about (currently) only applies to digital services, not physical products. The problems you mentioned don't apply in this context. There is absolutely nothing about this scheme that is better than before it was introduced. Nothing. Several years after it was introduced, as others have noted, some of the payment handling services have kind of caught up, to the point where if you can use one of them then you'll probably fly under the radar. You'll still have to spend time/money on the integration itself. You almost certainly still won't be fully compliant, because 100% compliance is practically impossible. You'll potentially be giving up a significant chunk of your margin in extra fees. And you'll still have the extra paperwork to do and the potential for an expensive audit by any of 28 member states' tax authorities if your number comes up. But at least you can carry on doing business in the meantime and hope for the best. This tax scheme is my go-to example of what happens when politicians who see a problem but have no idea what they're doing try to fix the problem anyway. Your final sentence is right on point, sadly.
- Strom 9y ago
  > There is absolutely nothing about this scheme that is better than before it was introduced. Nothing. Under the previous scheme Luxembourg/Ireland would get a gigantic share of VAT. I guess you could argue that this money can be redirected by EU support programs to countries in need. I think that having the VAT go directly to the country closest to the buyer is a more optimal solution. Less dependence on EU welfare to know that your tax money is benefiting your community.
  - zerostar07 9y ago
    But that is already happening with regular taxes. EU allows apple and google to set up shop in Ire and do business throughout the EU. Why treat VAT so differently?
  - gingerlime 9y ago
    I think this was the aim of the scheme, but perhaps similar to the GDPR[0], it's hurting small businesses extremely disproportionately to larger ones... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
zerostar07 9y ago
Wait, if i understand correctly, we would be charging 0% VAT to other european countries if we were pre- EU, right?
- TomMarius 9y ago
  Yes, but your customer would need to pay the VAT at the point of bringing the goods to his country. As you can see, the pre-EU laws are a bit outdated.

by tlb 9y ago

Silhouette 9y ago

The VAT MOSS scheme we're talking about (currently) only applies to digital services, not physical products. The problems you mentioned don't apply in this context. There is absolutely nothing about this scheme that is better than before it was introduced. Nothing. Several years after it was introduced, as others have noted, some of the payment handling services have kind of caught up, to the point where if you can use one of them then you'll probably fly under the radar. You'll still have to spend time/money on the integration itself. You almost certainly still won't be fully compliant, because 100% compliance is practically impossible. You'll potentially be giving up a significant chunk of your margin in extra fees. And you'll still have the extra paperwork to do and the potential for an expensive audit by any of 28 member states' tax authorities if your number comes up. But at least you can carry on doing business in the meantime and hope for the best. This tax scheme is my go-to example of what happens when politicians who see a problem but have no idea what they're doing try to fix the problem anyway. Your final sentence is right on point, sadly.

Strom 9y ago
> There is absolutely nothing about this scheme that is better than before it was introduced. Nothing. Under the previous scheme Luxembourg/Ireland would get a gigantic share of VAT. I guess you could argue that this money can be redirected by EU support programs to countries in need. I think that having the VAT go directly to the country closest to the buyer is a more optimal solution. Less dependence on EU welfare to know that your tax money is benefiting your community.
- zerostar07 9y ago
  But that is already happening with regular taxes. EU allows apple and google to set up shop in Ire and do business throughout the EU. Why treat VAT so differently?
- gingerlime 9y ago
  I think this was the aim of the scheme, but perhaps similar to the GDPR[0], it's hurting small businesses extremely disproportionately to larger ones... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...

zerostar07 9y ago

Wait, if i understand correctly, we would be charging 0% VAT to other european countries if we were pre- EU, right?

TomMarius 9y ago
Yes, but your customer would need to pay the VAT at the point of bringing the goods to his country. As you can see, the pre-EU laws are a bit outdated.