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How does that help a poor worker in Bangladesh? In many of these countries people voluntarily choose to work in these factories. They're terrible places to wor

How does that help a poor worker in Bangladesh? In many of these countries people voluntarily choose to work in these factories. They're terrible places to work, but apparently its still better than working in the fields. A more effective strategy might be something like: https://www.ijm.org/who-we-are https://www.ijm.org/who-we-are . They work within these countries to protect workers from the worst human rights abuses. (ie child sex trafficking and slavery)

NoGravitas 9y ago
You should read about [Enclosure][1]. Most people, historically, given the choice between traditional subsistence farming, and industrial labor, chose subsistence farming. So governments and property owners took away the option of subsistence farming. This was a 16th-19th century process in Britain, but is an ongoing process in poorer countries now. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  This is pretty well what happened to my family pre-mid-1800's (not sure exactly when). The Highland Clearances resulted in them leaving Ayrshire to work in Broxburn/Uphall near Edinburgh which at the time were essentially towns owned by shale mining companies. They remained there at least 100 years until one member defiantly decided to move to Canada (mid 1900s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances
- baursak 9y ago
  Here's a quicker, less dry article about it: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/yasha-levine-recovered-economic-history-everyone-but-an-idiot-knows-that-the-lower-classes-must-be-kept-poor-or-they-will-never-be-industrious.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/yasha-levine-recover...
beat 9y ago
People "voluntarily choose" to not starve or wind up homeless. That's a very narrow definition of "voluntary". Show me people doing things they would do even if they weren't getting paid to do it. That's voluntary.
- nybble41 9y ago
  > Show me people doing things they would do even if they weren't getting paid to do it. That's voluntary. The presence of compensation does not preclude an action from being voluntary. Neither does the presence of universal biological imperatives like the need for food or shelter. These things are forced on us by nature, not other people, and are part of the basic human condition. Providing necessary things for yourself is a voluntary action. Interacting with others of your own free will to provide the things you need more easily than you could do on your own is also a voluntary action. It only becomes involuntary when that interaction is forced on you, making you worse off than you would have been on your own (as always, from your own subjective point of view).
snambi 9y ago
what makes you think working in factory is better than working in the fields?

NoGravitas 9y ago

You should read about [Enclosure][1]. Most people, historically, given the choice between traditional subsistence farming, and industrial labor, chose subsistence farming. So governments and property owners took away the option of subsistence farming. This was a 16th-19th century process in Britain, but is an ongoing process in poorer countries now. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure

52-6F-62 9y ago
This is pretty well what happened to my family pre-mid-1800's (not sure exactly when). The Highland Clearances resulted in them leaving Ayrshire to work in Broxburn/Uphall near Edinburgh which at the time were essentially towns owned by shale mining companies. They remained there at least 100 years until one member defiantly decided to move to Canada (mid 1900s). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances
baursak 9y ago
Here's a quicker, less dry article about it: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/yasha-levine-recovered-economic-history-everyone-but-an-idiot-knows-that-the-lower-classes-must-be-kept-poor-or-they-will-never-be-industrious.html https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/yasha-levine-recover...

beat 9y ago

People "voluntarily choose" to not starve or wind up homeless. That's a very narrow definition of "voluntary". Show me people doing things they would do even if they weren't getting paid to do it. That's voluntary.

nybble41 9y ago
> Show me people doing things they would do even if they weren't getting paid to do it. That's voluntary. The presence of compensation does not preclude an action from being voluntary. Neither does the presence of universal biological imperatives like the need for food or shelter. These things are forced on us by nature, not other people, and are part of the basic human condition. Providing necessary things for yourself is a voluntary action. Interacting with others of your own free will to provide the things you need more easily than you could do on your own is also a voluntary action. It only becomes involuntary when that interaction is forced on you, making you worse off than you would have been on your own (as always, from your own subjective point of view).

snambi 9y ago

what makes you think working in factory is better than working in the fields?