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Unpopular opinion: It is easy to work less or nearly work nothing and still get by fine (in the context of the modern western world!), the issue is more that pe

Unpopular opinion: It is easy to work less or nearly work nothing and still get by fine (in the context of the modern western world!), the issue is more that people spend their money in bad ways and make bad long term decisions. If you live reasonable and don't spend money on things you don't need you also don't need to work so much...And I often heard from people now "I don't even know why I work so much, I don't need the money". I am sure most people would prefer to work less if the system would allow it.

don_draper 9y ago
In America rent and healthcare are two big expenses that you can't escape from. You could live in rural areas and then you don't have a job or you do but you're spending most of your income on car expenses.
ndh2 9y ago
This depends a lot on what country you live in and whether or not you have children.
- NiklasMort 9y ago
  If you have children you can't complain if you have to work more. It is a decision, kids cost money, everybody knows that. Same goes for location to live in, what you eat, if you want a car...my point is : you don't NEED much. Most people could live comfortable with less work, the problem is people WANT too much and that is exacerbated by this throw-away society. What most don't get is: the world owes you nothing, you should be happy with the minimum, anything beyond not being hungry and having shelter is an WANT that's extra you don't NEED. People are spoiled
  - slfnflctd 9y ago
    I agree that a huge amount of the suffering in the world, possibly most of it, can be traced back to bad decisions on the part of someone who should have known better. A lot of this definitely comes down to those 'wants'. Right now I have a household budget problem because someone wanted a new luxury item, it's terrible. All the same, let's not forget there are huge numbers of people in terrible situations they did not bring upon themselves. These are the people worth helping, even if it means a bunch of selfish, badly behaved people get helped along with them. At some point, mitigating the consequences of people (predictably) behaving badly has to be looked at as basic damage control.
    - NiklasMort 9y ago
      Yes I agree, there are people with bad luck but I was not talking about those, I meant more in general. I am not saying one should not help, the topic was about work anyway, my point was simply that if people step back with their wants they'd have to work less. I just hear too often someone lament about how he/she has no money but then they have all kinds of luxury items... car, especially if someone lives in a big city, is nothing but a money burning machine and if they say "but I want one" well then they gotta pay for that with their time and nerves at work
      - chillwaves 9y ago
        I can either drive a car and commute to work for 30-40 minutes each way or I can take public transportation and commute for 1.5-2 hours each way. Additionally, in places without robust transportation, you literally cannot work without a car. You are correct that I do not need a car, but you are wrong to assume it is trivial to lose 2+ hours of free time each day as just another luxury. Frankly, your position on needs vs wants seems like a convenient excuse to look down on other people who have different concepts of value. There is very little, in the western world, that we NEED to survive. You do not need electricity, for example, but no reasonable person would call it a luxury -- point being it is more subjective than you imply. Would also help your argument if you realize your perspective is extremely privileged. Some people have kids who did not want them, and yes it was a mistake but not as much a decision as something that happened -- they may not have the monetary, intellectual or moral foundation to handle an unwanted pregnancy. So this woman, maybe a single mother, now has a child and is struggling to pay her bills, a paycheck (or car repair, or medical expense) from being evicted. Your speech would not be relevant to a person in such a situation and there are many many many such people. People who eat out 5-10 times a week don't get to complain about being broke, but how is that a new insight? To me it trivializes the real struggles of the working poor.
        NiklasMort 9y ago
        But the struggle of the working poor is not because of the amount of work (topic), but because of a unfair economic system. p.s. if you read above you'd knew I been in such situations too, I kind of grew up with that
  - chillwaves 9y ago
    The ability to have and provide for children could be considered a fundamental human right, or THE fundamental right.
    - NiklasMort 9y ago
      How can one say something such irresponsible? A lot of the problems in the world and peoples personal life are caused by reproduction. It is not a right but a choice and this choice most seem unable to make with a clear rational mind, if anything people need oversight on that topic. But apparently ridiculous "ethical" and religious positions are more important than the coming global(!) humanitarian crisis, I'd like to ask people like you again about what you think once people start eating each other and rot away by the billions.
aalleavitch 9y ago
You've lived a charmingly sheltered life if you believe the majority of people live in that situation. The social support and education that allow people to easily survive while hardly working are not evenly distributed throughout society.
- NiklasMort 9y ago
  I live in the most corrupt and poorest country of all Western Society, I come from a poor family, my whole life was fighting, I have been starving, I have been freezing (couldn't afford heating, sleeping bag in winter). I don't blame anyone, I don't expect anything from society. I spend years acquiring skills, knowledge and experience and now it pays off. The whole knowledge of the world is available online to anyone, if someone can't make something out of that then they have to try harder.

don_draper 9y ago

In America rent and healthcare are two big expenses that you can't escape from. You could live in rural areas and then you don't have a job or you do but you're spending most of your income on car expenses.

ndh2 9y ago

This depends a lot on what country you live in and whether or not you have children.

NiklasMort 9y ago
If you have children you can't complain if you have to work more. It is a decision, kids cost money, everybody knows that. Same goes for location to live in, what you eat, if you want a car...my point is : you don't NEED much. Most people could live comfortable with less work, the problem is people WANT too much and that is exacerbated by this throw-away society. What most don't get is: the world owes you nothing, you should be happy with the minimum, anything beyond not being hungry and having shelter is an WANT that's extra you don't NEED. People are spoiled
- slfnflctd 9y ago
  I agree that a huge amount of the suffering in the world, possibly most of it, can be traced back to bad decisions on the part of someone who should have known better. A lot of this definitely comes down to those 'wants'. Right now I have a household budget problem because someone wanted a new luxury item, it's terrible. All the same, let's not forget there are huge numbers of people in terrible situations they did not bring upon themselves. These are the people worth helping, even if it means a bunch of selfish, badly behaved people get helped along with them. At some point, mitigating the consequences of people (predictably) behaving badly has to be looked at as basic damage control.
  - NiklasMort 9y ago
    Yes I agree, there are people with bad luck but I was not talking about those, I meant more in general. I am not saying one should not help, the topic was about work anyway, my point was simply that if people step back with their wants they'd have to work less. I just hear too often someone lament about how he/she has no money but then they have all kinds of luxury items... car, especially if someone lives in a big city, is nothing but a money burning machine and if they say "but I want one" well then they gotta pay for that with their time and nerves at work
    - chillwaves 9y ago
      I can either drive a car and commute to work for 30-40 minutes each way or I can take public transportation and commute for 1.5-2 hours each way. Additionally, in places without robust transportation, you literally cannot work without a car. You are correct that I do not need a car, but you are wrong to assume it is trivial to lose 2+ hours of free time each day as just another luxury. Frankly, your position on needs vs wants seems like a convenient excuse to look down on other people who have different concepts of value. There is very little, in the western world, that we NEED to survive. You do not need electricity, for example, but no reasonable person would call it a luxury -- point being it is more subjective than you imply. Would also help your argument if you realize your perspective is extremely privileged. Some people have kids who did not want them, and yes it was a mistake but not as much a decision as something that happened -- they may not have the monetary, intellectual or moral foundation to handle an unwanted pregnancy. So this woman, maybe a single mother, now has a child and is struggling to pay her bills, a paycheck (or car repair, or medical expense) from being evicted. Your speech would not be relevant to a person in such a situation and there are many many many such people. People who eat out 5-10 times a week don't get to complain about being broke, but how is that a new insight? To me it trivializes the real struggles of the working poor.
      - NiklasMort 9y ago
        But the struggle of the working poor is not because of the amount of work (topic), but because of a unfair economic system. p.s. if you read above you'd knew I been in such situations too, I kind of grew up with that
- chillwaves 9y ago
  The ability to have and provide for children could be considered a fundamental human right, or THE fundamental right.
  - NiklasMort 9y ago
    How can one say something such irresponsible? A lot of the problems in the world and peoples personal life are caused by reproduction. It is not a right but a choice and this choice most seem unable to make with a clear rational mind, if anything people need oversight on that topic. But apparently ridiculous "ethical" and religious positions are more important than the coming global(!) humanitarian crisis, I'd like to ask people like you again about what you think once people start eating each other and rot away by the billions.

aalleavitch 9y ago

You've lived a charmingly sheltered life if you believe the majority of people live in that situation. The social support and education that allow people to easily survive while hardly working are not evenly distributed throughout society.

NiklasMort 9y ago
I live in the most corrupt and poorest country of all Western Society, I come from a poor family, my whole life was fighting, I have been starving, I have been freezing (couldn't afford heating, sleeping bag in winter). I don't blame anyone, I don't expect anything from society. I spend years acquiring skills, knowledge and experience and now it pays off. The whole knowledge of the world is available online to anyone, if someone can't make something out of that then they have to try harder.