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If you can show me how to make audiotool.com or even something like captainforever.com in HTML5 I think I'll begin to see where you're coming from, but there ar

If you can show me how to make audiotool.com or even something like captainforever.com in HTML5 I think I'll begin to see where you're coming from, but there are plenty of things Flash does that HTML5 does not. To flip the switch from Flash 10 to HTML5 would be cutting off a lot of functionality. Saying HTML5 should replace Flash is like saying HTML5 should replace JPGs.

cryptoz 16y ago
> but there are plenty of things Flash does that HTML5 does not. Really? Can you mention any specifics? I do not think there are any things that Flash can do that HTML5 cannot. Have you seen Or So They Say? http://xplsv.com/prods/demos/xplsv_orsotheysay/ http://xplsv.com/prods/demos/xplsv_orsotheysay/
- qeorge 16y ago
  There's a ton of things Flash can do that HTML5 cannot, besides run in nearly any browser (now). P2P video is one example, sound recording is another. That doesn't mean Flash isn't overused. But its not useless either.
- wmf 16y ago
  Webcams, P2P, advanced audio stuff, DRM (you probably consider this a bug), etc.
  - cryptoz 16y ago
    Webcams? No, HTML5 will probably have support for that. "Advanced audio stuff"?! What do you mean? JavaScript (with HTML5) is a full programming language totally capable of "advanced audio stuff", whatever that means. What do you mean Flash has DRM but HTML5 doesn't? And yes, I do consider DRM a bad thing. Edit: Source for webcam comment: http://devworks.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Native-webcam-support-to-come-with-HTML5_3834.html http://devworks.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Native-webcam-suppor...
    - pak 16y ago
      How do you synthesize/analyze audio on the waveform level with HTML5? AFAIK this is only possible with an alpha version of Firefox implementing an experimental API, not part of HTML5. Flash can do full waveform synthesis as of v10, audiotool wouldn't work without it. The only way I can imagine doing this is creating data: URI's for <audio> in Javascript containing raw OGG/WAV data, which is write-only, half-baked and seems impractical.
    - leviathant 16y ago
      The audio capabilities of HTML5 suck. They're not going to get better for a while, and in the time it takes them to catch up, Flash will have continued to build on their well established foundations. Okay, looking at HTML5 drum machines via Google. Here. Here's an one, http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/ http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/ - it's got all the basic trimmings, but the playback has tempo fluctuations, and the whole thing is slow. And this is a drum machine running all by itself. Compare that to audiotool.com, and tell me that HTML5 can do what AudioTool does. Here's another one - http://pattern86.com/sequencer-in-html5/ http://pattern86.com/sequencer-in-html5/ - also laggy, and it only consists of four channels. Keep in mind, I'm not trashing the efforts of the folks who made these, kudos to them! But compare that to something like this http://audiotool.com/app/dubtexno/1 http://audiotool.com/app/dubtexno/1 -- HTML5 cannot do that. Sure, it will be able to in a few years. And surely, Flash will be able to do new things in a few years, too. This doesn't even address the lack of a (for want of a better term) unified developing environment for HTML/JS/Canvas/Audio a la Flash CSwhatever.
      - loewenskind 16y ago
        What on earth are you talking about? You're comparing HTML5 today to Flash with their maturity? I would bloody well hope Flash is still faster. The reason HTML5 is the future is it doesn't have the Adobe bottleneck. Is sound bad right now? Then browser makers can fix it. Is Flash a CPU hog? Wait until Adobe cares enough and has enough resources to fix it. Get it?
        elblanco 16y ago

cryptoz 16y ago

> but there are plenty of things Flash does that HTML5 does not. Really? Can you mention any specifics? I do not think there are any things that Flash can do that HTML5 cannot. Have you seen Or So They Say? http://xplsv.com/prods/demos/xplsv_orsotheysay/ http://xplsv.com/prods/demos/xplsv_orsotheysay/

qeorge 16y ago
There's a ton of things Flash can do that HTML5 cannot, besides run in nearly any browser (now). P2P video is one example, sound recording is another. That doesn't mean Flash isn't overused. But its not useless either.
wmf 16y ago
Webcams, P2P, advanced audio stuff, DRM (you probably consider this a bug), etc.
- cryptoz 16y ago
  Webcams? No, HTML5 will probably have support for that. "Advanced audio stuff"?! What do you mean? JavaScript (with HTML5) is a full programming language totally capable of "advanced audio stuff", whatever that means. What do you mean Flash has DRM but HTML5 doesn't? And yes, I do consider DRM a bad thing. Edit: Source for webcam comment: http://devworks.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Native-webcam-support-to-come-with-HTML5_3834.html http://devworks.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Native-webcam-suppor...
  - pak 16y ago
    How do you synthesize/analyze audio on the waveform level with HTML5? AFAIK this is only possible with an alpha version of Firefox implementing an experimental API, not part of HTML5. Flash can do full waveform synthesis as of v10, audiotool wouldn't work without it. The only way I can imagine doing this is creating data: URI's for <audio> in Javascript containing raw OGG/WAV data, which is write-only, half-baked and seems impractical.
  - leviathant 16y ago
    The audio capabilities of HTML5 suck. They're not going to get better for a while, and in the time it takes them to catch up, Flash will have continued to build on their well established foundations. Okay, looking at HTML5 drum machines via Google. Here. Here's an one, http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/ http://www.randomthink.net/labs/html5drums/ - it's got all the basic trimmings, but the playback has tempo fluctuations, and the whole thing is slow. And this is a drum machine running all by itself. Compare that to audiotool.com, and tell me that HTML5 can do what AudioTool does. Here's another one - http://pattern86.com/sequencer-in-html5/ http://pattern86.com/sequencer-in-html5/ - also laggy, and it only consists of four channels. Keep in mind, I'm not trashing the efforts of the folks who made these, kudos to them! But compare that to something like this http://audiotool.com/app/dubtexno/1 http://audiotool.com/app/dubtexno/1 -- HTML5 cannot do that. Sure, it will be able to in a few years. And surely, Flash will be able to do new things in a few years, too. This doesn't even address the lack of a (for want of a better term) unified developing environment for HTML/JS/Canvas/Audio a la Flash CSwhatever.
    - loewenskind 16y ago
      What on earth are you talking about? You're comparing HTML5 today to Flash with their maturity? I would bloody well hope Flash is still faster. The reason HTML5 is the future is it doesn't have the Adobe bottleneck. Is sound bad right now? Then browser makers can fix it. Is Flash a CPU hog? Wait until Adobe cares enough and has enough resources to fix it. Get it?
      - elblanco 16y ago