4 ms·

I disagree. I am not responsible for others feelings. There should be clear rules of conduct at any job and a clear process of enforcement. This make the situat

by j4ship 9y ago

I disagree. I am not responsible for others feelings. There should be clear rules of conduct at any job and a clear process of enforcement. This make the situation fair and certain. One easy rule is that if someone says "Only talk to me about work." then the other person has to respect it. No forcing of social acceptance , no shaming the other to believe what you believe, just focus on what you were hired for. This is a standard taught to many managers to keep the company out of harassment issues , its very robotic unemotional but its clear and will allow different groups to work together as long as this rule is enforced. Basically we should not have to worry about a toxic culture because you should not be forced into one when you work. You should just be able to work and separate yourself from your task in any emotional way. [California dev, 8 years, have held manager position]

tlb 9y ago
As a manager, you're absolutely responsible for your team member's feelings. Both morally and practically because if they feel bad at work, they'll leave.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- autogn0me 9y ago
  I disagree. You are responsible for YOURSELF. If you are being ugly or talking shit - you are responsible for your actions. Saying "you are absolutely responsible for someone else's feelings" is the bat-ass craziest thing I have ever heard [It is not lost on me that I'm making a snarky comment in this thread ;)]. An example: I am talking to someone and make a comment that the other person interprets as threatening or demeaning. They do not ask me about it but they play a narrative inside their mind about how I am threatening them. This is some fictional narrative in their mind. I have no clue this is happening. How could I be responsible for this? It is in their mind. It is incumbent on the person who feels awkward to ask for clarification. This is not "extra work" or forcing the down-trodden to work harder - it is clarity. We do it all the time in conversation. "I'm sorry, but when you say X are you meaning Y?" And you give the person a chance to clear it up. Now. Where the adulting comes off the track appears to be in the hyper-Ayn-Randian culture of technology/start-ups where people who are incredibly self-centered feel they can "vent" in the open and expect others to "deal with it". This is absolutely unacceptable. And most people who act this way - are usually so self-centered - they dont KNOW they are acting this way. It is unacceptable but when you ask then "did you mean X?" it gives them some space to be clear. If they really did mean to threaten, demean and provoke someone else -- they will be clear they DID intend for that to be case. But they had an opportunity to be clear about it. Narcissism is rampant in start-up scene (imho). Likely its just on the rise in general in USA population. One of the things that is great about a narcissist is that THEY WILL OFTEN TELL YOU THEY ARE A NARCISSIST! (google, how to find out if someone is a narcissist) They are quite proud of their eliteness and expectation to entitlements. When you ask them for clarity -- they will be clear. And that is when there is no need to have some fictional narrative being built in your mind -- you will KNOW for sure because you have asked them and they have told you. Regardless. Be clear. And most importantly -- if you HEAR someone asking for clarification -- give them positive feedback. Clear, kind, and even tempered rational communication is what we need more of in the world and less reactivity.
  - dang 9y ago
    This comment breaks the site guidelines in lots of ways: name-calling, snark, using uppercase for emphasis. You can't comment like that anywhere on HN, and certainly not in this thread which was bound to teeter on the abyss from the beginning. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and do a better job of following them.
doesnt_know 9y ago
Can I ask what you did in your role as a manager? Where I work, even though there are some titles that have the word "manager" in, the organization refers to anyone that have people report to them as "people leaders". They are responsible for the well being of the those that report to them. If you take away the part where you are responsible for your people, what is left? Even if you take the most clinical and robotic view of the role, you still have to effectively allocate your resources. This means balancing strengths and weaknesses, allocating team members to places they are more interested in to improve performance. All this boils down to getting to know your people and making sure they are happy... > You should just be able to work and separate yourself from your task in any emotional way. This is also a crazy statement coming from someone who has people report to them. People don't turn off their emotions just because they are getting paid to perform a task !??!
- jrs235 9y ago
  >People don't turn off their emotions just because they are getting paid to perform a task !??! Isn't that what we expect professionals to do? I mean yeah professionals still have feelings and emotions but they learn to detach them from their job. Like how we expect police officers to conduct themselves... Like trained professionals.
  - kelnos 9y ago
    There's a difference between acting professional and ignoring abuse because "I shouldn't be emotional at my job".
  - adamsea 9y ago
    We expect professionals to manage their emotions; huge difference. As the other poster says, it's a literal impossibility for a human being to not experience emotions. And police offers have to deal with stuff like PTSD and emotional trauma from their job, because of how intense it is. To a lesser degree than that, our (less intense) jobs have an unavoidable emotional impact on us.
    - 9y ago
ant_mc 9y ago
So what, you're going to punish someone who mentions they saw the shape of water last night and it was really good? That seems rather ridiculous. Or how about, I'm trying to learn rust and it's pretty neat but also pretty hard. I don't use rust at work. Is that work related enough since it's tech? If I walk up to a coworker and say "You idiot, this damn bug is ridiculous" am I not responsible for them getting upset at that?
- dang 9y ago
  Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments in this thread? and not post them to HN in general?
  - ant_mc 9y ago
    Would you please stop accusing me of that? I can't make a fucking comment without you up my fucking ass about it. I was illustrating the point that I think the standard proposed is not a good hard rule. The moderation here has become truly ridiculous.
    - dang 9y ago
      If you abuse the site and get banned, you can't just create a new account to keep doing the same things. Shouldn't that be obvious?
      - ant_mc 9y ago
        > abuse the site You mean like by being a shitty moderator?

by j4ship 9y ago

tlb 9y ago

As a manager, you're absolutely responsible for your team member's feelings. Both morally and practically because if they feel bad at work, they'll leave.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
autogn0me 9y ago
I disagree. You are responsible for YOURSELF. If you are being ugly or talking shit - you are responsible for your actions. Saying "you are absolutely responsible for someone else's feelings" is the bat-ass craziest thing I have ever heard [It is not lost on me that I'm making a snarky comment in this thread ;)]. An example: I am talking to someone and make a comment that the other person interprets as threatening or demeaning. They do not ask me about it but they play a narrative inside their mind about how I am threatening them. This is some fictional narrative in their mind. I have no clue this is happening. How could I be responsible for this? It is in their mind. It is incumbent on the person who feels awkward to ask for clarification. This is not "extra work" or forcing the down-trodden to work harder - it is clarity. We do it all the time in conversation. "I'm sorry, but when you say X are you meaning Y?" And you give the person a chance to clear it up. Now. Where the adulting comes off the track appears to be in the hyper-Ayn-Randian culture of technology/start-ups where people who are incredibly self-centered feel they can "vent" in the open and expect others to "deal with it". This is absolutely unacceptable. And most people who act this way - are usually so self-centered - they dont KNOW they are acting this way. It is unacceptable but when you ask then "did you mean X?" it gives them some space to be clear. If they really did mean to threaten, demean and provoke someone else -- they will be clear they DID intend for that to be case. But they had an opportunity to be clear about it. Narcissism is rampant in start-up scene (imho). Likely its just on the rise in general in USA population. One of the things that is great about a narcissist is that THEY WILL OFTEN TELL YOU THEY ARE A NARCISSIST! (google, how to find out if someone is a narcissist) They are quite proud of their eliteness and expectation to entitlements. When you ask them for clarity -- they will be clear. And that is when there is no need to have some fictional narrative being built in your mind -- you will KNOW for sure because you have asked them and they have told you. Regardless. Be clear. And most importantly -- if you HEAR someone asking for clarification -- give them positive feedback. Clear, kind, and even tempered rational communication is what we need more of in the world and less reactivity.
- dang 9y ago
  This comment breaks the site guidelines in lots of ways: name-calling, snark, using uppercase for emphasis. You can't comment like that anywhere on HN, and certainly not in this thread which was bound to teeter on the abyss from the beginning. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and do a better job of following them.

doesnt_know 9y ago

Can I ask what you did in your role as a manager? Where I work, even though there are some titles that have the word "manager" in, the organization refers to anyone that have people report to them as "people leaders". They are responsible for the well being of the those that report to them. If you take away the part where you are responsible for your people, what is left? Even if you take the most clinical and robotic view of the role, you still have to effectively allocate your resources. This means balancing strengths and weaknesses, allocating team members to places they are more interested in to improve performance. All this boils down to getting to know your people and making sure they are happy... > You should just be able to work and separate yourself from your task in any emotional way. This is also a crazy statement coming from someone who has people report to them. People don't turn off their emotions just because they are getting paid to perform a task !??!

jrs235 9y ago
>People don't turn off their emotions just because they are getting paid to perform a task !??! Isn't that what we expect professionals to do? I mean yeah professionals still have feelings and emotions but they learn to detach them from their job. Like how we expect police officers to conduct themselves... Like trained professionals.
- kelnos 9y ago
  There's a difference between acting professional and ignoring abuse because "I shouldn't be emotional at my job".
- adamsea 9y ago
  We expect professionals to manage their emotions; huge difference. As the other poster says, it's a literal impossibility for a human being to not experience emotions. And police offers have to deal with stuff like PTSD and emotional trauma from their job, because of how intense it is. To a lesser degree than that, our (less intense) jobs have an unavoidable emotional impact on us.
  - 9y ago

ant_mc 9y ago

So what, you're going to punish someone who mentions they saw the shape of water last night and it was really good? That seems rather ridiculous. Or how about, I'm trying to learn rust and it's pretty neat but also pretty hard. I don't use rust at work. Is that work related enough since it's tech? If I walk up to a coworker and say "You idiot, this damn bug is ridiculous" am I not responsible for them getting upset at that?

dang 9y ago
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments in this thread? and not post them to HN in general?
- ant_mc 9y ago
  Would you please stop accusing me of that? I can't make a fucking comment without you up my fucking ass about it. I was illustrating the point that I think the standard proposed is not a good hard rule. The moderation here has become truly ridiculous.
  - dang 9y ago
    If you abuse the site and get banned, you can't just create a new account to keep doing the same things. Shouldn't that be obvious?
    - ant_mc 9y ago
      > abuse the site You mean like by being a shitty moderator?