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It is terrifying how this power is being wielded. Cities try to compete to see who can be more obsequious and subservient to corporate interests in the hope tha

by wfo 9y ago

It is terrifying how this power is being wielded. Cities try to compete to see who can be more obsequious and subservient to corporate interests in the hope that they win some "victory" -- the company moving to their town -- which in the end does very little for the actual city or the people in it. It is just an impressive line item on the mayor's resume when they try to move up in politics, "I got Amazon!" Seattle hates Amazon and what it has done to the city. They provide nothing for the city, do nothing to help ameliorate the problems they create, they overcrowd every area with ultrawealthy out of towners who push actual Seattleites out of the neighborhoods they've lived in for generations, replacing local culture with bland silicon valley tech-ennui. And the jobs they offer aren't even good. They create new white-collar sweatshops in their office buildings to mirror their blue-collar sweatshops in the warehouses. If they are paying attention, people in all of these cities should be praying to god that Amazon doesn't choose their city. If they can, they should protest, riot, refuse to let it happen. If you want a left-wing prospective on this general issue (which is called "lotteryism") there's a great podcast that does media analysis on this and issues like it. As it turns out, for example, reporting describing the supposed 'benefits' Amazon could bring to a city are literally copied without attribution or further investigation from Amazon press releases. There is a reason Jeff Bezos bought a huge newspaper, and it's not charity. https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/lotteryism-part-i-how-the-rich-manipulate-the-press-to-divide-us https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/lotteryism-part-i-how...

closeparen 9y ago
TIL software engineers aren’t actual residents of the places we live.
- biocomputation 9y ago
  TIL software engineers think it's okay to participate in the economic and social destruction of neighborhoods in which people have lived for decades.
  - deadmetheny 9y ago
    If you've been on HN for any extended period of time, this should not come as a surprise to you.
    - biocomputation 9y ago
      Sadly, it's not!
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Young adults necessarily occupy space in a way that hasn’t yet been legitimized by the passage of much time. Populations that need to work for a living must go where there is work. Many of the consequences of this set of facts are dire and inhumane, and responsible public policy manages their impacts as best it can. A world with no new households is one that has stopped reproducing. A world where people are confined to their economically depressed birth cities is another kind of dystopian hellhole. Half of this wouldn’t even matter if we let housing become a positive-sum game.
    - biocomputation 9y ago
      You could always refuse to participate in the social and economic destruction of communities by simply not working at places that have a disproportionate impact on the surrounding community. Yes, it's that easy! << A world where people are forced to leave their community of origin because rich tech workers can outbid them for housing is another kind of dystopian hellhole. Fixed that for you.
      - closeparen 9y ago
        The size of your employer has nothing to do with your contribution to housing demand. A million employees of two-person startups have the same effect as a million Googlers, assuming similar budgets.
        biocomputation 9y ago
- wfo 9y ago
  Are you a software engineer in one of these cities struggling to find a job? Would you take one at Amazon, knowing that it's one of the worst software jobs out there because of horrible working conditions? Would you last significantly longer than the average 1 year turnover rate at Amazon? If you said yes to all these questions, your response makes sense. Congratulations, you are the .25% of the population that my argument doesn't apply to and I'll gladly note you as an exception and admit my argument was a generalization, though a reasonable one. edit: It's also worth noting that I don't blame Amazonian transplants to Seattle themselves, I find them wholly sympathetic and I think it's sad these people are blamed for the state of affairs: rather, the company, that draws so many from outside, makes no effort to acclimate them to local culture, works them to the bone so they have no time to do so themselves, and provides nothing for the city to aid in the overcrowding, traffic, and housing crises they have created is to blame.
  - BookmarkSaver 9y ago
    >Would you take one at Amazon, knowing that it's one of the worst software jobs out there because of horrible working conditions? Source? It is consistently ranked as one of the better places for software engineers to work, despite NYT hit pieces. >Would you last significantly longer than the average 1 year turnover rate at Amazon? Amazon's turnover is almost indistinguishable from Google's. It's an industry issue (at the highest tier, at least), not an Amazon one.
    - wfo 9y ago
      > It is consistently ranked as one of the better places for software engineers to work Where? By whom? I looked for a while and I couldn't find a single source to suggest this. There are plenty of lists of good software workplaces, Amazon shows up on none of them. People like working there because it is a great resume-booster. Work a couple years at Amazon, kill yourself for work, then move on to a real company with that on your CV. >despite NYT hit pieces Or as everyone else in the world knows it, "accurate reporting". Here's a quote from an article from an employee that I think captures it: “Amazon is a culture of self-driven workaholics” If you join the cult and agree it's a good idea to work yourself to death, it's a good place to do that. It's not a good place to go if you want to be a Seattleite, participate in a community or have a life at the same time.
biocomputation 9y ago
Thanks for posting this. I remain horrified at the changes that Amazon has pushed on Seattle.
OrwellianChild 9y ago
Just to make sure it's clear that this is not a universal opinion: I am a non-Amazon Seattle resident, and I'm thrilled with what the economic growth has done to the area. Some examples: - Converted an un-safe warehouse district into prime, central real estate and a thriving neighborhood (South Lake Union) - Grown a progressive, thriving economy that has in turn supported development of mass transit (ST2, ST3 - citywide light rail) - Pushed the median household income up 13% over the last decade Seattle ain't perfect, but there is no question in my mind that we'd be worse off without the thriving local tech economy.
- wfo 9y ago
  >Converted an un-safe warehouse district into prime, central real estate and a thriving neighborhood (South Lake Union) SLU was not un-safe. The idea that there is a seriously unsafe neighborhood in the city of Seattle is laughable. I remember SLU before Amazon. It has become extremely expensive and gentrified, that's it. >Grown a progressive, thriving economy that has in turn supported development of mass transit (ST2, ST3 - citywide light rail) Has massively inflated the population with wealthy transplants over a short period of time, pushing non-tech workers into the suburbs and requiring the citizens to pay for the added infrastructure costs due to Amazon-caused overcrowding without chipping in to help the city. >Pushed the median household income up 13% over the last decade You don't actually believe this is due to Amazon? I'm sure they helped a little.. mostly by pushing the poors out... >Seattle ain't perfect, but there is no question in my mind that we'd be worse off without the thriving local tech economy. Agreed, and Seattle has always been home to a thriving tech sector which is great. But other companies behave better with respect to their local community. Microsoft set up shop across the water, with a big campus so that employees could head into Seattle but didn't invade it and has adopted the culture of the area fairly well. Employees are treated well.
JPKab 9y ago
You act like the highly paid people you are whining about dont pay taxes. They do. You are also acting like you and the other "actual Seattleites" have an ancestral claim to the region. Are you a Native American? Doubtful. Your ancestors stole the land and now you act like your entitled to say who gets to live there? What a hypocritical, provincial attitude to have. And honestly, greedy as well. My family came to this country in the 1600s. If I had your attitude, I would hate everyone. But I'm not entitled enough to think that my earlier arrival means I earned privileges. Welcome to America, where effort and talent win over "I was here first"
- biocomputation 9y ago
  << Welcome to America, where effort and talent win over "I was here first" This is an utterly vacuous and false statement. There are mountains of empirical evidence to prove it if you could spend a few minutes in your favorite search engine. It's not greedy to protect the area you're from; it's human nature. I'm sorry, but Amazon's tens of thousands of out-of-town employees don't need to live in Seattle. Most of them could work remotely or find jobs at other companies.

by wfo 9y ago

closeparen 9y ago

TIL software engineers aren’t actual residents of the places we live.

biocomputation 9y ago
TIL software engineers think it's okay to participate in the economic and social destruction of neighborhoods in which people have lived for decades.
- deadmetheny 9y ago
  If you've been on HN for any extended period of time, this should not come as a surprise to you.
  - biocomputation 9y ago
    Sadly, it's not!
- closeparen 9y ago
  Young adults necessarily occupy space in a way that hasn’t yet been legitimized by the passage of much time. Populations that need to work for a living must go where there is work. Many of the consequences of this set of facts are dire and inhumane, and responsible public policy manages their impacts as best it can. A world with no new households is one that has stopped reproducing. A world where people are confined to their economically depressed birth cities is another kind of dystopian hellhole. Half of this wouldn’t even matter if we let housing become a positive-sum game.
  - biocomputation 9y ago
    You could always refuse to participate in the social and economic destruction of communities by simply not working at places that have a disproportionate impact on the surrounding community. Yes, it's that easy! << A world where people are forced to leave their community of origin because rich tech workers can outbid them for housing is another kind of dystopian hellhole. Fixed that for you.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      The size of your employer has nothing to do with your contribution to housing demand. A million employees of two-person startups have the same effect as a million Googlers, assuming similar budgets.
      - biocomputation 9y ago
wfo 9y ago
Are you a software engineer in one of these cities struggling to find a job? Would you take one at Amazon, knowing that it's one of the worst software jobs out there because of horrible working conditions? Would you last significantly longer than the average 1 year turnover rate at Amazon? If you said yes to all these questions, your response makes sense. Congratulations, you are the .25% of the population that my argument doesn't apply to and I'll gladly note you as an exception and admit my argument was a generalization, though a reasonable one. edit: It's also worth noting that I don't blame Amazonian transplants to Seattle themselves, I find them wholly sympathetic and I think it's sad these people are blamed for the state of affairs: rather, the company, that draws so many from outside, makes no effort to acclimate them to local culture, works them to the bone so they have no time to do so themselves, and provides nothing for the city to aid in the overcrowding, traffic, and housing crises they have created is to blame.
- BookmarkSaver 9y ago
  >Would you take one at Amazon, knowing that it's one of the worst software jobs out there because of horrible working conditions? Source? It is consistently ranked as one of the better places for software engineers to work, despite NYT hit pieces. >Would you last significantly longer than the average 1 year turnover rate at Amazon? Amazon's turnover is almost indistinguishable from Google's. It's an industry issue (at the highest tier, at least), not an Amazon one.
  - wfo 9y ago
    > It is consistently ranked as one of the better places for software engineers to work Where? By whom? I looked for a while and I couldn't find a single source to suggest this. There are plenty of lists of good software workplaces, Amazon shows up on none of them. People like working there because it is a great resume-booster. Work a couple years at Amazon, kill yourself for work, then move on to a real company with that on your CV. >despite NYT hit pieces Or as everyone else in the world knows it, "accurate reporting". Here's a quote from an article from an employee that I think captures it: “Amazon is a culture of self-driven workaholics” If you join the cult and agree it's a good idea to work yourself to death, it's a good place to do that. It's not a good place to go if you want to be a Seattleite, participate in a community or have a life at the same time.

biocomputation 9y ago

Thanks for posting this. I remain horrified at the changes that Amazon has pushed on Seattle.

OrwellianChild 9y ago

Just to make sure it's clear that this is not a universal opinion: I am a non-Amazon Seattle resident, and I'm thrilled with what the economic growth has done to the area. Some examples: - Converted an un-safe warehouse district into prime, central real estate and a thriving neighborhood (South Lake Union) - Grown a progressive, thriving economy that has in turn supported development of mass transit (ST2, ST3 - citywide light rail) - Pushed the median household income up 13% over the last decade Seattle ain't perfect, but there is no question in my mind that we'd be worse off without the thriving local tech economy.

wfo 9y ago
>Converted an un-safe warehouse district into prime, central real estate and a thriving neighborhood (South Lake Union) SLU was not un-safe. The idea that there is a seriously unsafe neighborhood in the city of Seattle is laughable. I remember SLU before Amazon. It has become extremely expensive and gentrified, that's it. >Grown a progressive, thriving economy that has in turn supported development of mass transit (ST2, ST3 - citywide light rail) Has massively inflated the population with wealthy transplants over a short period of time, pushing non-tech workers into the suburbs and requiring the citizens to pay for the added infrastructure costs due to Amazon-caused overcrowding without chipping in to help the city. >Pushed the median household income up 13% over the last decade You don't actually believe this is due to Amazon? I'm sure they helped a little.. mostly by pushing the poors out... >Seattle ain't perfect, but there is no question in my mind that we'd be worse off without the thriving local tech economy. Agreed, and Seattle has always been home to a thriving tech sector which is great. But other companies behave better with respect to their local community. Microsoft set up shop across the water, with a big campus so that employees could head into Seattle but didn't invade it and has adopted the culture of the area fairly well. Employees are treated well.

JPKab 9y ago

You act like the highly paid people you are whining about dont pay taxes. They do. You are also acting like you and the other "actual Seattleites" have an ancestral claim to the region. Are you a Native American? Doubtful. Your ancestors stole the land and now you act like your entitled to say who gets to live there? What a hypocritical, provincial attitude to have. And honestly, greedy as well. My family came to this country in the 1600s. If I had your attitude, I would hate everyone. But I'm not entitled enough to think that my earlier arrival means I earned privileges. Welcome to America, where effort and talent win over "I was here first"

biocomputation 9y ago
<< Welcome to America, where effort and talent win over "I was here first" This is an utterly vacuous and false statement. There are mountains of empirical evidence to prove it if you could spend a few minutes in your favorite search engine. It's not greedy to protect the area you're from; it's human nature. I'm sorry, but Amazon's tens of thousands of out-of-town employees don't need to live in Seattle. Most of them could work remotely or find jobs at other companies.