5 ms·

Hi...presenter here. This has been posted a couple times and it's always flattering and a bit nerve wracking. Happy to answer questions, there are a couple of

by avs733 9y ago

Hi...presenter here. This has been posted a couple times and it's always flattering and a bit nerve wracking. Happy to answer questions, there are a couple of errors and misspeaks. Note I'm not in that field anymore (and,thankfully, I'm in much better physical shape).

madeuptempacct 9y ago
Did you make bank? How did you get into it?
barsonme 9y ago
Jeez, it really is like magic. Awesome presentation–thanks! (Also, congrats on getting in better shape.)
- avs733 9y ago
  Thanks :) bot working 14hrs a day 6 days a week helps.
aphextron 9y ago
What's the single best way to get involved in the industry? Should I bother getting a degree or just go straight for hands on manufacturing experience? Are there any universities known for good programs?
- ambrood 9y ago
  Back when i was majoring in ECE at UIUC, we got to play around with Fab labs :). Yeah you'd pretty much need a advanced degree in EE or Physics to be a semi-conductor engineer I'd reckon.
  - aphextron 9y ago
    Surely there are entry level technician jobs though?
    - avs733 9y ago
      For those you are typically looking at an as or even a bs. They look for strong reliability, precision and attention to detail, and hands on skills. Strong evidence of an ability to learn is also gold. Plus most of those guys work 3/4 12hr shifts a week...great schedule. No work goes home with you.
- avs733 9y ago
  It depends on what you want to do. Do you want to just monitor tools running production? Do you want to actively work on the tools in the fab? Want to be a process engineer? Be a device design engineer? Work in process development? Each is different...a college degree will never hurt and a master's is pretty normal for fab engineers and a PhD for process developers. As for schools it definitely depends in a similar way, but most top technical schools will get you recruited. A standout is Rochester institute of technology which has an undergrad degree in microelectronics.
- pkaye 9y ago
  I used to be in that industry back 20 years ago helping design one of the major machines still in production. Since then I've moved onto many different things. The best way to get into this field is get a materials science/engineering degree. Sadly there has been lots of consolidation among fabs plus most of them moved overseas so hard to get any hands on experience. They also have lots of technician roles in the fabs but with automation and improved reliability, maybe not so easy to get. Your best shot for hands on exposure would be a equipment manufacturer like Applied Materials or Lam Research.
- peterburkimsher 9y ago
  I studied Electronic Systems Engineering at Lancaster University in the UK, and graduated with a Masters in 2011. Now I'm working for a tech company in Taiwan, who do the next process step: dicing the wafers into individuals dies, and packaging the dies into chips. There's a trolley downstairs with over 1 petabyte - stacked high with trays of 16GB memory cards from the testing machine. Unfortunately I only managed to get a job writing monitoring software, equipment control drivers, and business planning software, so I don't get to handle the wafers myself. In my opinion, you'll need to learn Chinese if you want to work for the lithography companies, or work for the German/Japanese/Swiss companies making the machines that take in the FOUPs. If you want to simply be a technician, most of the migrant workers who operate the machines here come from the Philippines and get paid very little while working very long hours with no path to promotion (all the line managers are Taiwanese). On the bright side though, the technicians speak better English, so it's easier to talk to them directly! I enjoyed the circuit design/FPGA programming courses in university, but the projects to design ASICs usually take several years, so I couldn't get work experience thorough summer jobs (which is how I ended up in software).
1ris 9y ago
Any thoughts on germanium (not GeSi, but Ge without or with little Si) or carbon based chips?
- avs733 9y ago
  Unfortunately, not really. I'm not super familiar with germanium. I have some experience with gallium arsenide.
Nerada 9y ago
I'm just curious as to what you're doing now if you're no longer in that field.
- avs733 9y ago
  sorry, wasn't great about checking this. Right now, finishing up a PhD in engineering education where I study the development of engineering students' beliefs about knowledge and how those interact with their development of entrepreneurial competence.
Zarathust 9y ago
You have a bunch of nice images. Are those taken with "standard" microscopes? Also you mentioned a background in metrology. How do you inspect something a few atoms thick?
- avs733 9y ago
  The device level images are a mix of Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM) and visual microscope images. A bunch of different ways. Depends on the material being measured but measuring sheet resistance (effectively, you can back calculate the thickness by measuring the resistance of a square of known size) and light scattering off the surface are the most common.
tecleandor 9y ago
Great! I'm the uploader (to YouTube, not HN). I was present at the time and also gave a talk at that HOPE. I loved your talk and I'm happy to see it surface again here by surprise. I uploaded it at the time as I wanted to subtitle this for my deaf (and also non English speaker) teacher, but I lost the password for that YouTube account mid progress. Maybe I should try to reset it. Thank you!
- avs733 9y ago
  REALLY!? 1) thank you for the effort to make cons more inclusive 2) would love to help...would having the slides help?
- peterburkimsher 9y ago
  Could you send the subtitles to me too? That would be really interesting! (and if your teacher is non-English-speaker, a translation to Chinese would be amazing if you have that).
  - tecleandor 9y ago
    I'm trying to find the access to that old YouTube account. I can't remember how much I got to subtitle, maybe around 20-30%, but I'd like to finish that work :)
  - avs733 9y ago
    I'm happy to send you the actual slides if that helps as well.
ben174 9y ago
I’d be very interested in hearing a quick summary of the last six years. Particularly how they compare to your predictions in the future slide at the end of your presentation (about 51 minutes in).
coreyp_1 9y ago
Great presentation!
peterburkimsher 9y ago
Tell us more about clean rooms! What I remember from class is that it's a fan on the roof, blowing air through a very fine filter. The most magic part for me is that this still works even though the PM2.5 pollution outside is terrible (the AQI is over 150 today, which causes me to sneeze and get red eyes, and is known to increase the risk of cancer, so everyone wears dust masks outside).
- avs733 9y ago
  enormous spaces with laminar flow. So cool! most relaxing place in the world, wonderful background white noise for getting work done. Most cleanrooms are now class 10 (meaning 10 half micron sized particles per square meter) compared to a class 1,000 operating room. The wafers are all sealed in the 'clearnoom within the cleanroom' spaces of tools and FOUPS. I have heard of fabs having problems fro msources as strange as nearby farms and earthquakes half way around the world. The filtering (ultra-HEPA filters) will absolutely clear up your alergies almost over night.

by avs733 9y ago

madeuptempacct 9y ago

Did you make bank? How did you get into it?

barsonme 9y ago

Jeez, it really is like magic. Awesome presentation–thanks! (Also, congrats on getting in better shape.)

avs733 9y ago
Thanks :) bot working 14hrs a day 6 days a week helps.

aphextron 9y ago

What's the single best way to get involved in the industry? Should I bother getting a degree or just go straight for hands on manufacturing experience? Are there any universities known for good programs?

ambrood 9y ago
Back when i was majoring in ECE at UIUC, we got to play around with Fab labs :). Yeah you'd pretty much need a advanced degree in EE or Physics to be a semi-conductor engineer I'd reckon.
- aphextron 9y ago
  Surely there are entry level technician jobs though?
  - avs733 9y ago
    For those you are typically looking at an as or even a bs. They look for strong reliability, precision and attention to detail, and hands on skills. Strong evidence of an ability to learn is also gold. Plus most of those guys work 3/4 12hr shifts a week...great schedule. No work goes home with you.
avs733 9y ago
It depends on what you want to do. Do you want to just monitor tools running production? Do you want to actively work on the tools in the fab? Want to be a process engineer? Be a device design engineer? Work in process development? Each is different...a college degree will never hurt and a master's is pretty normal for fab engineers and a PhD for process developers. As for schools it definitely depends in a similar way, but most top technical schools will get you recruited. A standout is Rochester institute of technology which has an undergrad degree in microelectronics.
pkaye 9y ago
I used to be in that industry back 20 years ago helping design one of the major machines still in production. Since then I've moved onto many different things. The best way to get into this field is get a materials science/engineering degree. Sadly there has been lots of consolidation among fabs plus most of them moved overseas so hard to get any hands on experience. They also have lots of technician roles in the fabs but with automation and improved reliability, maybe not so easy to get. Your best shot for hands on exposure would be a equipment manufacturer like Applied Materials or Lam Research.
peterburkimsher 9y ago
I studied Electronic Systems Engineering at Lancaster University in the UK, and graduated with a Masters in 2011. Now I'm working for a tech company in Taiwan, who do the next process step: dicing the wafers into individuals dies, and packaging the dies into chips. There's a trolley downstairs with over 1 petabyte - stacked high with trays of 16GB memory cards from the testing machine. Unfortunately I only managed to get a job writing monitoring software, equipment control drivers, and business planning software, so I don't get to handle the wafers myself. In my opinion, you'll need to learn Chinese if you want to work for the lithography companies, or work for the German/Japanese/Swiss companies making the machines that take in the FOUPs. If you want to simply be a technician, most of the migrant workers who operate the machines here come from the Philippines and get paid very little while working very long hours with no path to promotion (all the line managers are Taiwanese). On the bright side though, the technicians speak better English, so it's easier to talk to them directly! I enjoyed the circuit design/FPGA programming courses in university, but the projects to design ASICs usually take several years, so I couldn't get work experience thorough summer jobs (which is how I ended up in software).

1ris 9y ago

Any thoughts on germanium (not GeSi, but Ge without or with little Si) or carbon based chips?

avs733 9y ago
Unfortunately, not really. I'm not super familiar with germanium. I have some experience with gallium arsenide.

Nerada 9y ago

I'm just curious as to what you're doing now if you're no longer in that field.

avs733 9y ago
sorry, wasn't great about checking this. Right now, finishing up a PhD in engineering education where I study the development of engineering students' beliefs about knowledge and how those interact with their development of entrepreneurial competence.

Zarathust 9y ago

You have a bunch of nice images. Are those taken with "standard" microscopes? Also you mentioned a background in metrology. How do you inspect something a few atoms thick?

avs733 9y ago
The device level images are a mix of Scanning Electron Microscope (SEM) and visual microscope images. A bunch of different ways. Depends on the material being measured but measuring sheet resistance (effectively, you can back calculate the thickness by measuring the resistance of a square of known size) and light scattering off the surface are the most common.

tecleandor 9y ago

Great! I'm the uploader (to YouTube, not HN). I was present at the time and also gave a talk at that HOPE. I loved your talk and I'm happy to see it surface again here by surprise. I uploaded it at the time as I wanted to subtitle this for my deaf (and also non English speaker) teacher, but I lost the password for that YouTube account mid progress. Maybe I should try to reset it. Thank you!

avs733 9y ago
REALLY!? 1) thank you for the effort to make cons more inclusive 2) would love to help...would having the slides help?
peterburkimsher 9y ago
Could you send the subtitles to me too? That would be really interesting! (and if your teacher is non-English-speaker, a translation to Chinese would be amazing if you have that).
- tecleandor 9y ago
  I'm trying to find the access to that old YouTube account. I can't remember how much I got to subtitle, maybe around 20-30%, but I'd like to finish that work :)
- avs733 9y ago
  I'm happy to send you the actual slides if that helps as well.

ben174 9y ago

I’d be very interested in hearing a quick summary of the last six years. Particularly how they compare to your predictions in the future slide at the end of your presentation (about 51 minutes in).

coreyp_1 9y ago

Great presentation!

peterburkimsher 9y ago

Tell us more about clean rooms! What I remember from class is that it's a fan on the roof, blowing air through a very fine filter. The most magic part for me is that this still works even though the PM2.5 pollution outside is terrible (the AQI is over 150 today, which causes me to sneeze and get red eyes, and is known to increase the risk of cancer, so everyone wears dust masks outside).

avs733 9y ago
enormous spaces with laminar flow. So cool! most relaxing place in the world, wonderful background white noise for getting work done. Most cleanrooms are now class 10 (meaning 10 half micron sized particles per square meter) compared to a class 1,000 operating room. The wafers are all sealed in the 'clearnoom within the cleanroom' spaces of tools and FOUPS. I have heard of fabs having problems fro msources as strange as nearby farms and earthquakes half way around the world. The filtering (ultra-HEPA filters) will absolutely clear up your alergies almost over night.