4 ms·

> "Why are you always trying to impress everyone by using big words." Yeah, I had similar experiences. I read a lot of books and absorbed their vocabulary, and

by Isamu 9y ago

> "Why are you always trying to impress everyone by using big words." Yeah, I had similar experiences. I read a lot of books and absorbed their vocabulary, and sometimes it would slip out. I would just say what's on my mind, and that's what other people do, right? Then I would get into trouble also by pausing to weigh my words, people read too much into your pause before answering them. Or I just wouldn't say much, because it leads to trouble. Then people decide you are stuck up and aloof. It took years to present a more normal facade. Plus just moving on to people that weren't so judgmental. And anyway, over time I have come to prize simple speech, simple explanations. Especially if the concepts are complicated and heavy.

kingraoul3 9y ago
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
- HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
  I'm almost certain people exist with a real aptitude for say, high level mathematics, and no aptitude at all for communicating with others. I may have even met one or two...
- wolfgke 9y ago
  I can explain advanced mathematics simply. But then my explanation will take three hours instead of three minutes. Do you want to hear it?!
logfromblammo 9y ago
Whenever I paused to consider my next words, someone would start talking into my silence and then accuse me of interrupting them when I tried to continue. I eventually realized that I wasn't bad at speaking; I just had a different style. Some people are more agile in conversation, because they do not think about what they want to say before activating their mouth-parts to make the noises. They jump right in, by using formulaic nulls to establish conversational priority, then fill in the content afterward. Then they hold priority with more nulls for as long as it takes to come up with more content. I have never been able to bring myself to hold conversational priority by babbling nonsense, and I can't abide listening to a constant stream of nulls, trying to sift signal from noise, so I just don't talk to certain people. The best I can manage is gestural nulls. It's one of the reasons why I prefer writing to speaking. I suspect I might be able to speak normally with Scandinavians, as I have heard they consider silences to be an essential part of conversation. Here in the US, I am continually frustrated by not being able to speak in paragraphs. And that may be because most people do not think in paragraphs. A lot of them can't even manage whole sentences.
- alexashka 9y ago
  It may help to understand that conversations for most people, about most things, are a way to express and exchange emotions, not information. There's information in there, but that's purely optional. You have built-up resentment towards others because you'd like to relate to them, but it hasn't worked out so far. That's not because they 'can't even manage whole sentences' - it's because you're weird :) That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, it's just the way it is. You can continue existing in your bubble of negativity and resentment, or work towards finding ways to enjoy people's company, because frankly, if you didn't want it, you'd not feel any resentment in the first place. You'd happily sit alone in a room and do whatever 'smart' things that you do, and that wouldn't include posting on here.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Everything you said is true, but none of it is very helpful to me. > ENJOY VOGON POETRY You grit your teeth, stiffen your upper lip, and discover that it's actually not all that bad. With a bit of drum machine, electric guitar, and some backup dancers, it might even pass as catchy pop song lyrics. Ford gapes at you in bewildered agony as Jeltz continues the reading. I can't exactly blame myself for being weird. Which leaves me to blame everything-not-myself for being insufficiently respectful of weirdness in others.
- harlanji 9y ago
  It's not just here in the US, I've had similar culture shock moving from Minneapolis to San Francisco. I've had endless pain at work trying to communicate an idea quickly enough and not being able to have conversations that feel genuine/curious/reciprocal (more defensive). I'm still not sure if it was because I'd earned my respect there so people paid close attention vs. n00b here, or that the culture was genuinely different. I have friends from there/that time here now, we have good discussions still.
- carlmr 9y ago
  >Whenever I paused to consider my next words, someone would start talking into my silence and then accuse me of interrupting them when I tried to continue. I've made the same experiece, but then some introspection lead me to find that I do the same thing. Sometimes what somebody tells you is just so boring. There's no point to their story, no suspense, no drame, no humor. Then your thoughts trail off, boom, you get something interesting in your head. They make a lengthy pause, and you think "finally it's over", and then you interrupt them. They're like "I need to finish my story", they interrupt you back. What I've learned, but still not completely internalized, is that you sometimes need to let go of your story. Your story isn't as interesting as you thought it would be. Maybe you're presenting it to the wrong audience. Whatever it is you need to let go of that story and continue with that conversation, instead of dwelling on the thought of getting your point across. Nobody cares.
emmelaich 9y ago
Your mention of pause reminded me of this. It's a good read. http://virtualwayfarer.com/nordic-conversations-are-different/ http://virtualwayfarer.com/nordic-conversations-are-differen... discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8205907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8205907

by Isamu 9y ago

kingraoul3 9y ago

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
I'm almost certain people exist with a real aptitude for say, high level mathematics, and no aptitude at all for communicating with others. I may have even met one or two...
wolfgke 9y ago
I can explain advanced mathematics simply. But then my explanation will take three hours instead of three minutes. Do you want to hear it?!

logfromblammo 9y ago

Whenever I paused to consider my next words, someone would start talking into my silence and then accuse me of interrupting them when I tried to continue. I eventually realized that I wasn't bad at speaking; I just had a different style. Some people are more agile in conversation, because they do not think about what they want to say before activating their mouth-parts to make the noises. They jump right in, by using formulaic nulls to establish conversational priority, then fill in the content afterward. Then they hold priority with more nulls for as long as it takes to come up with more content. I have never been able to bring myself to hold conversational priority by babbling nonsense, and I can't abide listening to a constant stream of nulls, trying to sift signal from noise, so I just don't talk to certain people. The best I can manage is gestural nulls. It's one of the reasons why I prefer writing to speaking. I suspect I might be able to speak normally with Scandinavians, as I have heard they consider silences to be an essential part of conversation. Here in the US, I am continually frustrated by not being able to speak in paragraphs. And that may be because most people do not think in paragraphs. A lot of them can't even manage whole sentences.

alexashka 9y ago
It may help to understand that conversations for most people, about most things, are a way to express and exchange emotions, not information. There's information in there, but that's purely optional. You have built-up resentment towards others because you'd like to relate to them, but it hasn't worked out so far. That's not because they 'can't even manage whole sentences' - it's because you're weird :) That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, it's just the way it is. You can continue existing in your bubble of negativity and resentment, or work towards finding ways to enjoy people's company, because frankly, if you didn't want it, you'd not feel any resentment in the first place. You'd happily sit alone in a room and do whatever 'smart' things that you do, and that wouldn't include posting on here.
- logfromblammo 9y ago
  Everything you said is true, but none of it is very helpful to me. > ENJOY VOGON POETRY You grit your teeth, stiffen your upper lip, and discover that it's actually not all that bad. With a bit of drum machine, electric guitar, and some backup dancers, it might even pass as catchy pop song lyrics. Ford gapes at you in bewildered agony as Jeltz continues the reading. I can't exactly blame myself for being weird. Which leaves me to blame everything-not-myself for being insufficiently respectful of weirdness in others.
harlanji 9y ago
It's not just here in the US, I've had similar culture shock moving from Minneapolis to San Francisco. I've had endless pain at work trying to communicate an idea quickly enough and not being able to have conversations that feel genuine/curious/reciprocal (more defensive). I'm still not sure if it was because I'd earned my respect there so people paid close attention vs. n00b here, or that the culture was genuinely different. I have friends from there/that time here now, we have good discussions still.
carlmr 9y ago
>Whenever I paused to consider my next words, someone would start talking into my silence and then accuse me of interrupting them when I tried to continue. I've made the same experiece, but then some introspection lead me to find that I do the same thing. Sometimes what somebody tells you is just so boring. There's no point to their story, no suspense, no drame, no humor. Then your thoughts trail off, boom, you get something interesting in your head. They make a lengthy pause, and you think "finally it's over", and then you interrupt them. They're like "I need to finish my story", they interrupt you back. What I've learned, but still not completely internalized, is that you sometimes need to let go of your story. Your story isn't as interesting as you thought it would be. Maybe you're presenting it to the wrong audience. Whatever it is you need to let go of that story and continue with that conversation, instead of dwelling on the thought of getting your point across. Nobody cares.

emmelaich 9y ago

Your mention of pause reminded me of this. It's a good read. http://virtualwayfarer.com/nordic-conversations-are-different/ http://virtualwayfarer.com/nordic-conversations-are-differen... discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8205907 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8205907