4 ms·

They won't do this after getting bids from numerous American cities. To choose a city in Canada would piss off too much of their customer base, including the pr

by prklmn 9y ago

They won't do this after getting bids from numerous American cities. To choose a city in Canada would piss off too much of their customer base, including the president of the country, and would have a long term material impact on sales.

claudiulodro 9y ago
Have you seen Trump's tweets about Amazon and Bezos? He's already pissed at them. Frankly if I was in their shoes I would go with Toronto also to have some sort of hedging against the US political climate.
- prklmn 9y ago
  I think that would be too incendiary a hedge. They have much more to lose than gain.
  - s4vi0r 9y ago
    I think you're overestimating the trumples. He has an abysmal approval rating, and the types of people who tend appprove of him (e.g. rural poor) aren't exactly big spenders/prime consumers or whatever. Trump will raise a stink about it, but I'd be very surprised if anyone normal/reasonable felt Amazon opening hq2 in Canada to be like a personal attack against America or something.
    - wfo 9y ago
      Just an aside, Trump supporters are NOT poor or the working class, this is a myth. The poor are non-voters and if they vote it's mostly Democrat by and large. Trump voters for the most part were middle class suburbanites or exburbanites.
      - lloyd-christmas 9y ago
        Do you have a source for this? Historically, republican voters are both poorer and less educated (which in and of itself has class implications). However, none of those demographics are relevant if they are all located in solid red states. Given that most people seem to attribute the swing state losses to the 'we need jobs' votes coming from the manufacturing and steel industries, the swing implies it's due to jobless (poor) and/or working class voters, the exact demographic you say was not the determinant.
        wfo 9y ago
        First link on google on poor voters going Democratic: http://www.businessinsider.com/exit-polls-who-voted-for-trump-clinton-2016-11/#the-racial-divide-between-democratic-and-republican-voters-was-clear-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/exit-polls-who-voted-for-trum... Every income group over $50k voted Trump. If you scroll down you see that rural voters did indeed go for Trump, but they are much smaller proportion of the population than city folk or, the largest group, suburbanites (who went for Trump solidly as well). I don't have a source handy for the poor being largely non-voters but I've seen hundreds over the years, it's well-established fact. >Given that most people seem to attribute the swing state losses to the 'we need jobs' votes coming from the manufacturing and steel industries Most people might make this attribution but it is not correct.
        lloyd-christmas 9y ago
        That article doesn't support your assertion. Those are overall exit polls, not polls of swing states. The swings states are the only meaningful measure of comparison as to "why he won". The middle class are doing very well in red states like Iowa and Nebraska, but they are just as irrelevant as a billionaire in manhattan or a welfare recipient in the bronx.
        prklmn 9y ago
        In Ohio, the state that has voted for every president to win since 1964, trump won across every level of education and every level of income except the MOST poor according to exit polls. http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/ohio/president http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/ohio/pres...
    - prklmn 9y ago
      You also could have never guessed Trump would win the election, right? You and I are not tapped into the minds of plenty of Americans who will absolutely feel the feeling you've described. And your assertion about "trumpies" is just not true. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/?utm_term=.070ac248b4ed https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/0... Forget about normal/reasonable, while trump's approval rating is abysmally low going by historical standards, it's still 30 something percent - a large number in absolute terms.
- snowwrestler 9y ago
  Trump does not give a shit about Bezos or Amazon. The only reason he targets Bezos is because Bezos owns the Washington Post.
- coolso 9y ago
  > Frankly if I was in their shoes I would go with Toronto also to have some sort of hedging against the US political climate. Meh. However you feel about Trump, confidence in the US economy among businesses has been really high since his election, and even higher after the tax bill got passed. Look at what’s happening with Apple and the hundreds of other companies giving out bonuses and increasing spending in the US. Your comment might have made more sense closer to the election when everyone was making those gloom and doom predictions and nobody was sure what might really happen, but I think right now the US is more attractive to businesses than it’s probably been in a very long time.
- souprock 9y ago
  That may be the whole point of the competition. Toronto could be the winner from before the competition even started, but holding the competition is still worthwhile. It is a way to get Toronto to cough up some goodies while simultaneously getting a way to claim that this is all Trump's fault.
jhall1468 9y ago
I sincerely doubt the majority of their customer base cares at all, and it would almost certainly have very little impact on sales.
- prklmn 9y ago
  I sincerely doubted that Hillary would lose the election, and we know how that went. You're probably right in that the majority of their customer base wouldn't care at all. However, even if 10% care, not an unreasonable guess, that would absolutely have a large material impact on sales. The placement of the HQ in Toronto would be branded as a betrayal of America. I think the NFL/Papa Johns case could end up being similar --> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/21/papa-johns-founder-replaced-as-ceo-weeks-after-blaming-the-nfl-for-sagging-pizza-sales/?utm_term=.7501e4680889 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/21/p...
- toastking 9y ago
  Yeah and they already have offices all over the world so it's a nonissue.
  - prklmn 9y ago
    The difference with those offices is they didn't tease 20+ US cities before building them. It's a nonissue to you, but it won't be to millions of Americans.
astrodust 9y ago
How many Americans are "pissed off" that their American cars are made in Canada? They don't even know where their stuff is made any more. Toyota makes cars in Kentucky, Texas, Indiana, Alabama, West Virgina and Mississippi, but they're an "import". Ford makes vehicles in Mexico and Canada but they're "domestic".
- prklmn 9y ago
  Your point is valid, however no car factory built recently has garnered a fraction of the publicity/public interest that HQ2 has. What people don't know can't hurt them.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    Nobody cares about HQ2 outside of certain tech circles. My point is people care more about where their cars are made, and they don't even really care about that.
    - OkGoDoIt 9y ago
      I wouldn’t be so sure of that. My parents, who are both in their 60s and not the least bit affiliated with technology, are both aware of Amazon’s headquarters search and brought it up with me when I was visiting over the holidays.
    - southphillyman 9y ago
      This is false. This whole process has been huge news. It's front page on sites like Washington Post, Philly.com, and the IndyStar and I've just checked multiple non tech forums where it's one of the busiest topics today.
      - astrodust 9y ago
        A single day of news is not "news". Everyone's already moved on to the US government shutdown and more nonsense about emails and ISIS.
    - 9y ago
gumby 9y ago
I think your analysis is a bit Amerocentric. They said they wanted a second HQ in “North America” and received several Canadian bids, all but one of which failed to make the cut.

by prklmn 9y ago

claudiulodro 9y ago

Have you seen Trump's tweets about Amazon and Bezos? He's already pissed at them. Frankly if I was in their shoes I would go with Toronto also to have some sort of hedging against the US political climate.

prklmn 9y ago
I think that would be too incendiary a hedge. They have much more to lose than gain.
- s4vi0r 9y ago
  I think you're overestimating the trumples. He has an abysmal approval rating, and the types of people who tend appprove of him (e.g. rural poor) aren't exactly big spenders/prime consumers or whatever. Trump will raise a stink about it, but I'd be very surprised if anyone normal/reasonable felt Amazon opening hq2 in Canada to be like a personal attack against America or something.
  - wfo 9y ago
    Just an aside, Trump supporters are NOT poor or the working class, this is a myth. The poor are non-voters and if they vote it's mostly Democrat by and large. Trump voters for the most part were middle class suburbanites or exburbanites.
    - lloyd-christmas 9y ago
      Do you have a source for this? Historically, republican voters are both poorer and less educated (which in and of itself has class implications). However, none of those demographics are relevant if they are all located in solid red states. Given that most people seem to attribute the swing state losses to the 'we need jobs' votes coming from the manufacturing and steel industries, the swing implies it's due to jobless (poor) and/or working class voters, the exact demographic you say was not the determinant.
      - wfo 9y ago
        First link on google on poor voters going Democratic: http://www.businessinsider.com/exit-polls-who-voted-for-trump-clinton-2016-11/#the-racial-divide-between-democratic-and-republican-voters-was-clear-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/exit-polls-who-voted-for-trum... Every income group over $50k voted Trump. If you scroll down you see that rural voters did indeed go for Trump, but they are much smaller proportion of the population than city folk or, the largest group, suburbanites (who went for Trump solidly as well). I don't have a source handy for the poor being largely non-voters but I've seen hundreds over the years, it's well-established fact. >Given that most people seem to attribute the swing state losses to the 'we need jobs' votes coming from the manufacturing and steel industries Most people might make this attribution but it is not correct.
        lloyd-christmas 9y ago
        That article doesn't support your assertion. Those are overall exit polls, not polls of swing states. The swings states are the only meaningful measure of comparison as to "why he won". The middle class are doing very well in red states like Iowa and Nebraska, but they are just as irrelevant as a billionaire in manhattan or a welfare recipient in the bronx.
        prklmn 9y ago
        In Ohio, the state that has voted for every president to win since 1964, trump won across every level of education and every level of income except the MOST poor according to exit polls. http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/ohio/president http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls/ohio/pres...
  - prklmn 9y ago
    You also could have never guessed Trump would win the election, right? You and I are not tapped into the minds of plenty of Americans who will absolutely feel the feeling you've described. And your assertion about "trumpies" is just not true. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/05/its-time-to-bust-the-myth-most-trump-voters-were-not-working-class/?utm_term=.070ac248b4ed https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/06/0... Forget about normal/reasonable, while trump's approval rating is abysmally low going by historical standards, it's still 30 something percent - a large number in absolute terms.
snowwrestler 9y ago
Trump does not give a shit about Bezos or Amazon. The only reason he targets Bezos is because Bezos owns the Washington Post.
coolso 9y ago
> Frankly if I was in their shoes I would go with Toronto also to have some sort of hedging against the US political climate. Meh. However you feel about Trump, confidence in the US economy among businesses has been really high since his election, and even higher after the tax bill got passed. Look at what’s happening with Apple and the hundreds of other companies giving out bonuses and increasing spending in the US. Your comment might have made more sense closer to the election when everyone was making those gloom and doom predictions and nobody was sure what might really happen, but I think right now the US is more attractive to businesses than it’s probably been in a very long time.
souprock 9y ago
That may be the whole point of the competition. Toronto could be the winner from before the competition even started, but holding the competition is still worthwhile. It is a way to get Toronto to cough up some goodies while simultaneously getting a way to claim that this is all Trump's fault.

jhall1468 9y ago

I sincerely doubt the majority of their customer base cares at all, and it would almost certainly have very little impact on sales.

prklmn 9y ago
I sincerely doubted that Hillary would lose the election, and we know how that went. You're probably right in that the majority of their customer base wouldn't care at all. However, even if 10% care, not an unreasonable guess, that would absolutely have a large material impact on sales. The placement of the HQ in Toronto would be branded as a betrayal of America. I think the NFL/Papa Johns case could end up being similar --> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/21/papa-johns-founder-replaced-as-ceo-weeks-after-blaming-the-nfl-for-sagging-pizza-sales/?utm_term=.7501e4680889 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/21/p...
toastking 9y ago
Yeah and they already have offices all over the world so it's a nonissue.
- prklmn 9y ago
  The difference with those offices is they didn't tease 20+ US cities before building them. It's a nonissue to you, but it won't be to millions of Americans.

astrodust 9y ago

How many Americans are "pissed off" that their American cars are made in Canada? They don't even know where their stuff is made any more. Toyota makes cars in Kentucky, Texas, Indiana, Alabama, West Virgina and Mississippi, but they're an "import". Ford makes vehicles in Mexico and Canada but they're "domestic".

prklmn 9y ago
Your point is valid, however no car factory built recently has garnered a fraction of the publicity/public interest that HQ2 has. What people don't know can't hurt them.
- astrodust 9y ago
  Nobody cares about HQ2 outside of certain tech circles. My point is people care more about where their cars are made, and they don't even really care about that.
  - OkGoDoIt 9y ago
    I wouldn’t be so sure of that. My parents, who are both in their 60s and not the least bit affiliated with technology, are both aware of Amazon’s headquarters search and brought it up with me when I was visiting over the holidays.
  - southphillyman 9y ago
    This is false. This whole process has been huge news. It's front page on sites like Washington Post, Philly.com, and the IndyStar and I've just checked multiple non tech forums where it's one of the busiest topics today.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      A single day of news is not "news". Everyone's already moved on to the US government shutdown and more nonsense about emails and ISIS.
  - 9y ago

gumby 9y ago

I think your analysis is a bit Amerocentric. They said they wanted a second HQ in “North America” and received several Canadian bids, all but one of which failed to make the cut.