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In the medium term, they get public transit systems shut down or reduced in service by pricing fares artificially low for a period of time. This enables them to

In the medium term, they get public transit systems shut down or reduced in service by pricing fares artificially low for a period of time. This enables them to then exercise monopoly pricing power on the market (or oligopoly with Lyft or whatever local competitor) and ultimately harms the lower classes. Thus the $5 splurge for an Uber instead of the $2 bus hypothetically becomes the $10 Uber with no alternative short of driving yourself. I'm not super convinced by this argument but it is a reasonable argument. Especially given that Uber wields billions in venture capital specifically to systematically underprice both regular taxis and public transit options.

eric_the_read 9y ago
I haven't seen this actually happen, though. In Denver, at least, RTD has been expanding routes and light rail service (albeit slowly, but that is most definitely NOT Uber's fault), even as Uber, Lyft, etc. have become more popular.
- mrgordon 9y ago
  Well Denver won best transit in America recently to be fair. This article points at what I'm saying: http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-ridership/ http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-rider... Fewer people ride public transit when ridesharing is available. Ridesharing actually substitutes more for public transit than for driving, which means it puts more people into small vehicles and creates more pollution and congestion. Whether you see it in growing Denver or not, less riders ultimately means less fares, less funding, and less service.
  - eric_the_read 9y ago
    Thanks, that was the sort of article I was hoping for. I am surprised to see Denver winning best transit in America, though; it still takes me 2-3x the time to travel light rail or bus than driving. Sometimes the convenience is worth it, but usually not.
    - mrgordon 9y ago
      Yeah I think ultimately NYC still has the most usable transit network. I am not sure the details of the award without searching but they had it plastered up inside the buses when I was there. It probably gets good user ratings because its been improving as opposed to NYC which is overwhelmed with riders and maintenance. I did notice Denver had a lot of buses compared to most places in America, but it is still a car culture after all.
geezerjay 9y ago
> In the medium term, they get public transit systems shut down This sounds like grade-A bullshit. At best rideshare services reduce the use of personal cars and compete with taxi services, but they can't or won't compete with mass transit. Moreover the upper or even middle class aren't exactly the target market of public transportation services. If anyone was switching from public transportation to rideshare services, that would be the class you assert is being oppressed, which makes absolurely no sense.
- mrgordon 9y ago
  First of all, I don't think your tone is very kind or conducive to a productive conversation. You state with no evidence whatsoever that rideshare services "can't or won't compete with mass transit" while the truth is that millions of people decide between the two on a daily basis. In places like NYC and SF where transit is viable, it is widely used by the lower, middle, even upper middle classes. It has become much more prevalent to simply take Lyft to work every day (some employers just pay for it) which leaves less people on MTA or BART. That hurts funding for maintaining extremely expensive public transit systems which often leads to cutbacks in service during tough times as "we can't support the long hours with so few passengers" Yes some of the lower class benefits from ridesharing (in the short term at least) and I acknowledged there were two sides to the argument. But ultimately if people get some cheap rides for a few years but then have to choose between expensive rides or degraded public transit, then they've almost certainly lost out unless driverless cars or some other innovation saves the day.
  - mrgordon 9y ago
    Here is a recent article about how people are switching from public transit to ridesharing and not from driving as many people expect: http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-ridership/ http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-rider... It doesn't make sense to say ridesharing "can't or won't compete with mass transit" when its literally the main thing it competes with.
  - IWeldMelons 9y ago
    I do not understand how it is possible. Public transit is soo much cheaper. In many cases, it is just unaffordable for someone to switch from taking the bus to Uber.

eric_the_read 9y ago

I haven't seen this actually happen, though. In Denver, at least, RTD has been expanding routes and light rail service (albeit slowly, but that is most definitely NOT Uber's fault), even as Uber, Lyft, etc. have become more popular.

mrgordon 9y ago
Well Denver won best transit in America recently to be fair. This article points at what I'm saying: http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-ridership/ http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-rider... Fewer people ride public transit when ridesharing is available. Ridesharing actually substitutes more for public transit than for driving, which means it puts more people into small vehicles and creates more pollution and congestion. Whether you see it in growing Denver or not, less riders ultimately means less fares, less funding, and less service.
- eric_the_read 9y ago
  Thanks, that was the sort of article I was hoping for. I am surprised to see Denver winning best transit in America, though; it still takes me 2-3x the time to travel light rail or bus than driving. Sometimes the convenience is worth it, but usually not.
  - mrgordon 9y ago
    Yeah I think ultimately NYC still has the most usable transit network. I am not sure the details of the award without searching but they had it plastered up inside the buses when I was there. It probably gets good user ratings because its been improving as opposed to NYC which is overwhelmed with riders and maintenance. I did notice Denver had a lot of buses compared to most places in America, but it is still a car culture after all.

geezerjay 9y ago

> In the medium term, they get public transit systems shut down This sounds like grade-A bullshit. At best rideshare services reduce the use of personal cars and compete with taxi services, but they can't or won't compete with mass transit. Moreover the upper or even middle class aren't exactly the target market of public transportation services. If anyone was switching from public transportation to rideshare services, that would be the class you assert is being oppressed, which makes absolurely no sense.

mrgordon 9y ago
First of all, I don't think your tone is very kind or conducive to a productive conversation. You state with no evidence whatsoever that rideshare services "can't or won't compete with mass transit" while the truth is that millions of people decide between the two on a daily basis. In places like NYC and SF where transit is viable, it is widely used by the lower, middle, even upper middle classes. It has become much more prevalent to simply take Lyft to work every day (some employers just pay for it) which leaves less people on MTA or BART. That hurts funding for maintaining extremely expensive public transit systems which often leads to cutbacks in service during tough times as "we can't support the long hours with so few passengers" Yes some of the lower class benefits from ridesharing (in the short term at least) and I acknowledged there were two sides to the argument. But ultimately if people get some cheap rides for a few years but then have to choose between expensive rides or degraded public transit, then they've almost certainly lost out unless driverless cars or some other innovation saves the day.
- mrgordon 9y ago
  Here is a recent article about how people are switching from public transit to ridesharing and not from driving as many people expect: http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-ridership/ http://fortune.com/2017/10/13/uber-lyft-public-transit-rider... It doesn't make sense to say ridesharing "can't or won't compete with mass transit" when its literally the main thing it competes with.
- IWeldMelons 9y ago
  I do not understand how it is possible. Public transit is soo much cheaper. In many cases, it is just unaffordable for someone to switch from taking the bus to Uber.