4 ms·

>Malls are nice and cars are a better experience than transit/walking in every facet This isn't even remotely true. You are forgetting the time spent finding a

>Malls are nice and cars are a better experience than transit/walking in every facet This isn't even remotely true. You are forgetting the time spent finding a parking spot, the opportunity cost of having a parking lot instead of more housing or commercial space, transit/walking also provides exercise, which matters in an epidemically obese society. This doesn't even get into the pollution aspect of driving or the costs of car ownership/maintenance. Cars become a depreciating asset as soon as you buy them, should we be encouraging that type of investment?

vkou 9y ago
Not to mention how many people cars kill each year.
jimmaswell 9y ago
>time spent finding a parking spot Not a lot of time at all in my experience, certainly less than waiting for public transit or an uber to arrive. >opportunity cost To me it's worth it. >exercise You walk inside the mall. And what about people with certain disabilities? Do they get left out of this walking-only city? >pollution Emissions are improving all the time, and electric cars are on the rise. >depreciating asset So? Along with almost everything? Buy a used car if you're so concerned about your "asset" depreciating. You get value from it when you use it.
- supplied_demand 9y ago
  >Certainly less than waiting for public transit or an uber to arrive. I can track train, bus or Uber/Lyft arrival on my phone. >To me it's worth it. You made that clear. For the rest of society, higher rents, heat capture and poor rainwater drainage make parking lots a net negative. >You walk inside the mall. And what about people with certain disabilities? Do they get left out of this walking-only city? I see plenty of disabled people on public transit and using sidewalks in my city. I'm not sure what cities your experience comes from, but my experience is different. I also don't see many obese people on public transit, but I do when walking around suburban malls. >Emissions are improving all the time, and electric cars are on the rise. Transportation (cars and trucks) is the biggest contributor to CO2 emissions in the US as of the past two years. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/11/16874696/greenhouse-gas-co2-target-2017-paris-trump https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/11/1687469... >Along with almost everything? Buy a used car if you're so concerned about your "asset" depreciating. Except education, real estate, stocks and other large purchases people make. I actually can't think of something other than cars that people routinely pay over $10k (in December, the average new car in US sold for $36,495) for and expect it to decline in value immediately. Used cars are as much a depreciating asset as new ones. Typically the more used a car is, the more you will pay for upkeep.
  - jimmaswell 9y ago
    Yes, you can track a train bus or uber on your phone, but you're still working around their schedule. The uber will take some time to get there and there might not be any available, and the other transit may be between scheduled departures. If it's 4:05 and the bus comes every hour, you're sitting on your hands until 5. Rent is usually correlated with density, what do you mean by that? My car was $1000 used, and in terms of maintenance, the most expensive repair it's needed was $30 (not missing a zero, it's thirty), having the transmission line replaced with a hose because it broke. There have been fluid changes, new tires, DMV registration etc. but that would all be the same in a newer car. I could probably sell it for more than $1000 if I wanted, but I don't want to - 28-38ish MPG and very reliable, a 1998 Ford Escort ZX2. Haven't recent events in the housing market shown that expecting your real estate to appreciate is a mistake? Real estate can't just keep appreciating faster than inflation forever; greater fool theory only works in a market for so long. If you buy a house, plan around it depreciating.
    - supplied_demand 9y ago
      It increases rent because it is unused half the time and takes up land that could be used for other things like housing. This limits the supply of land and increases property costs, thus increasing rents. >If you buy a house, plan around it depreciating. Unless the country expands or population stops growing there is a limit on the supply of land in the US. It is safe to assume a steady increase in property values over time. Certainly not 90s and early 2000s level, but steady. Even with the recession, housing prices have continued to climb in the US. Waiting on public transit is definitely a drawback in many places (not in my city), but things like more frequent buses are something we could have if we adjusted priorities as a nation. You seem to have made good economic decisions (specifically on your car purchase) and should be applauded for that. What I question is a society that explicitly encourages car driving over other forms of transit. This encourages people to make poor economic decisions (ex: car loans, maintenance, depreciation, insurance) because they need a car to survive in our built environment. I do not mean to question your personal decisions.
- bluGill 9y ago
  You are comparing the wrong thing. When you are in a walkable area most of the things you want to get to are closer than the distance that you walk form your car to the store in the mall. When there are 2 good restaurants on your block, and a small grocery store: you don't need to go to the mall anymore.
  - jimmaswell 9y ago
    It was like that at college, on-campus eating places within a 5 minute walk of my dorm. Having experienced both, I prefer driving for 5 minutes to walking for 3.
    - Smaug123 9y ago
      This is your prerogative; but understand that very many people do not think like you.
    - superhuzza 9y ago
      Entirely subjective - I will walk 20 minutes to avoid 5 minutes of driving and parking.
tomjakubowski 9y ago
It's also much harder to safely solve crosswords, do math problems, or carry on a conversation when driving a car as compared to using transit.
amyjess 9y ago
I completely disagree. I am far more comfortable with suburban shopping malls than any kind of urbanized environment. I'll take a nice indoor climate-controlled environment over being exposed to the elements. I live in a part of the country where temperatures are regularly in the triple digits in the summer. I can't tolerate heat at all, which means I can't go shopping in any kind of downtown area. And then there's rain in the spring and cold temperatures in the winter... thanks, but no thanks. And in urban areas, the streets are still full of cars, and crossing them is physically dangerous. When I worked downtown, I was nearly killed multiple times by some psycho trying to make a right turn while I was crossing the street. There are no cars inside malls, just foot traffic. And I just love the whole aesthetic of malls. I'll walk around malls just for fun. I even work right next to a mall, so I'll sometimes go to the mall for lunch and walk a circuit or two. Also, cars should not be considered investments. A car should be considered a sunk cost, just like any other appliance. When I buy an appliance, I'm not investing in anything or expecting to get anything back. I paid money for a tool, and that's it.

vkou 9y ago

Not to mention how many people cars kill each year.

jimmaswell 9y ago

>time spent finding a parking spot Not a lot of time at all in my experience, certainly less than waiting for public transit or an uber to arrive. >opportunity cost To me it's worth it. >exercise You walk inside the mall. And what about people with certain disabilities? Do they get left out of this walking-only city? >pollution Emissions are improving all the time, and electric cars are on the rise. >depreciating asset So? Along with almost everything? Buy a used car if you're so concerned about your "asset" depreciating. You get value from it when you use it.

supplied_demand 9y ago
>Certainly less than waiting for public transit or an uber to arrive. I can track train, bus or Uber/Lyft arrival on my phone. >To me it's worth it. You made that clear. For the rest of society, higher rents, heat capture and poor rainwater drainage make parking lots a net negative. >You walk inside the mall. And what about people with certain disabilities? Do they get left out of this walking-only city? I see plenty of disabled people on public transit and using sidewalks in my city. I'm not sure what cities your experience comes from, but my experience is different. I also don't see many obese people on public transit, but I do when walking around suburban malls. >Emissions are improving all the time, and electric cars are on the rise. Transportation (cars and trucks) is the biggest contributor to CO2 emissions in the US as of the past two years. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/11/16874696/greenhouse-gas-co2-target-2017-paris-trump https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/1/11/1687469... >Along with almost everything? Buy a used car if you're so concerned about your "asset" depreciating. Except education, real estate, stocks and other large purchases people make. I actually can't think of something other than cars that people routinely pay over $10k (in December, the average new car in US sold for $36,495) for and expect it to decline in value immediately. Used cars are as much a depreciating asset as new ones. Typically the more used a car is, the more you will pay for upkeep.
- jimmaswell 9y ago
  Yes, you can track a train bus or uber on your phone, but you're still working around their schedule. The uber will take some time to get there and there might not be any available, and the other transit may be between scheduled departures. If it's 4:05 and the bus comes every hour, you're sitting on your hands until 5. Rent is usually correlated with density, what do you mean by that? My car was $1000 used, and in terms of maintenance, the most expensive repair it's needed was $30 (not missing a zero, it's thirty), having the transmission line replaced with a hose because it broke. There have been fluid changes, new tires, DMV registration etc. but that would all be the same in a newer car. I could probably sell it for more than $1000 if I wanted, but I don't want to - 28-38ish MPG and very reliable, a 1998 Ford Escort ZX2. Haven't recent events in the housing market shown that expecting your real estate to appreciate is a mistake? Real estate can't just keep appreciating faster than inflation forever; greater fool theory only works in a market for so long. If you buy a house, plan around it depreciating.
  - supplied_demand 9y ago
    It increases rent because it is unused half the time and takes up land that could be used for other things like housing. This limits the supply of land and increases property costs, thus increasing rents. >If you buy a house, plan around it depreciating. Unless the country expands or population stops growing there is a limit on the supply of land in the US. It is safe to assume a steady increase in property values over time. Certainly not 90s and early 2000s level, but steady. Even with the recession, housing prices have continued to climb in the US. Waiting on public transit is definitely a drawback in many places (not in my city), but things like more frequent buses are something we could have if we adjusted priorities as a nation. You seem to have made good economic decisions (specifically on your car purchase) and should be applauded for that. What I question is a society that explicitly encourages car driving over other forms of transit. This encourages people to make poor economic decisions (ex: car loans, maintenance, depreciation, insurance) because they need a car to survive in our built environment. I do not mean to question your personal decisions.
bluGill 9y ago
You are comparing the wrong thing. When you are in a walkable area most of the things you want to get to are closer than the distance that you walk form your car to the store in the mall. When there are 2 good restaurants on your block, and a small grocery store: you don't need to go to the mall anymore.
- jimmaswell 9y ago
  It was like that at college, on-campus eating places within a 5 minute walk of my dorm. Having experienced both, I prefer driving for 5 minutes to walking for 3.
  - Smaug123 9y ago
    This is your prerogative; but understand that very many people do not think like you.
  - superhuzza 9y ago
    Entirely subjective - I will walk 20 minutes to avoid 5 minutes of driving and parking.

tomjakubowski 9y ago

It's also much harder to safely solve crosswords, do math problems, or carry on a conversation when driving a car as compared to using transit.

amyjess 9y ago

I completely disagree. I am far more comfortable with suburban shopping malls than any kind of urbanized environment. I'll take a nice indoor climate-controlled environment over being exposed to the elements. I live in a part of the country where temperatures are regularly in the triple digits in the summer. I can't tolerate heat at all, which means I can't go shopping in any kind of downtown area. And then there's rain in the spring and cold temperatures in the winter... thanks, but no thanks. And in urban areas, the streets are still full of cars, and crossing them is physically dangerous. When I worked downtown, I was nearly killed multiple times by some psycho trying to make a right turn while I was crossing the street. There are no cars inside malls, just foot traffic. And I just love the whole aesthetic of malls. I'll walk around malls just for fun. I even work right next to a mall, so I'll sometimes go to the mall for lunch and walk a circuit or two. Also, cars should not be considered investments. A car should be considered a sunk cost, just like any other appliance. When I buy an appliance, I'm not investing in anything or expecting to get anything back. I paid money for a tool, and that's it.