5 ms·

I'm sorry, what makes Google so "deeply unethical?"

hateduser2 9y ago
Well I feel like it’s kind of easy to guess what they mean. I’m sure it’s related to spying and data hoarding and tracking and privacy issues and their incentives are highly misaligned and encourage unethical anti consumer behavior.
- lakerz16 9y ago
  Their incentive is to make money by providing goods or services to customers, which is the same as every business. Go buy something from the department store, give them your phone number when they ask for it, and tell me you don't receive spam calls afterward. Given all that Google knows about you, i'd say they're actually quite polite in how invasive they are. I'd much rather them have this data than 99% of the other companies out there. It sounds like you basically just hate businesses that collect data. I'm sorry to break it to you, but there are a ton of them.
- fixermark 9y ago
  ... like having images and info on most of the restaurants in my town because the app bothers to ask and some people are happy to answer? I think there's a disconnect here.
- kajecounterhack 9y ago
  As far as centralized companies go Google is one of the better ones. It's unfortunate that so much power accrues to only a few entities. But slamming Google is like slamming a side effect of a bigger problem: many markets are naturally winner takes all and vertical integration confers enormous benefits. I don't see much of a way around this but many feel stronger regulations to protect consumer data should be enacted to safeguard us against bad private actors. Saying "I'll use something else" isn't always a viable solution.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    As far as centralized companies go Google is one of the better ones. Gonna have to ask you to define your terms here, pal.
    - kajecounterhack 9y ago
      Sorry. I meant to express that Google represents a company that has been successful at centralizing a lot of data, wealth, and engineering ability. Others include Apple, Amazon, Facebook, etc.
  - zzzcpan 9y ago
    > many markets are naturally winner takes all I don't think this is true. "Winner takes all" is a predatory behavior and it is only possible with enormous concentration of wealth. Otherwise markets become full of small players and fair competition.
    - deong 9y ago
      Some markets do. There are many examples of markets that don't -- enough that there's a recognized term for it ("Natural Monopoly"). I would argue that the level of knowledge, talent, and engineering and scientific resources required to do what Google does forms a pretty effective natural barrier to a bunch of small players being able to compete.
- ehsankia 9y ago
  > spying [citation needed] > data hoarding Collecting data is "deeply unethical"? So then the census and hospital and anyone else who collects data are unethical too? > tracking You can disable location permission on everything. > privacy issues [citation needed] > their incentives are highly misaligned How is bringing you the most relevant data "misaligned"? That is their incentive as an ad company. Showing you things that you will like. > encourage unethical anti consumer behavior [citation needed]
  - specialist 9y ago
    [citation needed] http://bfy.tw/G7Ox http://bfy.tw/G7Ox
fenwick67 9y ago
They're an advertising company that gets most of its profits by collecting personal information about people and trying to manipulate them into buying things. Sounds pretty unethical to me.
- ehsankia 9y ago
  That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is: They're an advertisement company that profits from showing you the most relevant data and things that you will like. It's all about perspective. You can take anything and spin it to be nefarious if you try hard enough.
  - specialist 9y ago
    If google's personalization efforts actually created the filter bubble that I want, more more and less less, it'd be a fair trade. But they don't, so it isn't.
- ptasci67 9y ago
  Are billboards or radio stations or television channels unethical to you? Because they are also trying to "manipulate" you into buying things. Advertising is not inherently unethical. I want people to buy my product so I need to raise awareness of it, encourage people that it is the best, make them feel like they need it. I would even go so far as to say that Google's default anonymized model makes this far better. My preferences can be used to serve more meaningful ads to me which makes everyone happier. Eg, I was searching for tent reviews online. Saw an ad for a tent from a brand I had never heard of. Looked up their reviews and bought that tent. Unfortunately, they are a lot of bad actors in this space. Google is actively trying to weed them out. They are deeply incentivized to rid the internet of them because it means less ad blockers and less spam and more money for them. Any website you visit or app you use is going to collect some personal information about you. How many times have you questioned why you need to turn over your email to a stopwatch app. At least with Google's default-anonymized model, you are opting in to a fairly sweet deal. You volunteer things you are interested in so that Google can serve you better ads and keep the internet free (in the dollar sense) and the information you provide is not reversible back to you. Doesn't sound too unethical to me especially because it is all one big opt-in.

Well I feel like it’s kind of easy to guess what they mean. I’m sure it’s related to spying and data hoarding and tracking and privacy issues and their incentives are highly misaligned and encourage unethical anti consumer behavior.

lakerz16 9y ago
Their incentive is to make money by providing goods or services to customers, which is the same as every business. Go buy something from the department store, give them your phone number when they ask for it, and tell me you don't receive spam calls afterward. Given all that Google knows about you, i'd say they're actually quite polite in how invasive they are. I'd much rather them have this data than 99% of the other companies out there. It sounds like you basically just hate businesses that collect data. I'm sorry to break it to you, but there are a ton of them.
fixermark 9y ago
... like having images and info on most of the restaurants in my town because the app bothers to ask and some people are happy to answer? I think there's a disconnect here.
kajecounterhack 9y ago
As far as centralized companies go Google is one of the better ones. It's unfortunate that so much power accrues to only a few entities. But slamming Google is like slamming a side effect of a bigger problem: many markets are naturally winner takes all and vertical integration confers enormous benefits. I don't see much of a way around this but many feel stronger regulations to protect consumer data should be enacted to safeguard us against bad private actors. Saying "I'll use something else" isn't always a viable solution.
- rhizome 9y ago
  As far as centralized companies go Google is one of the better ones. Gonna have to ask you to define your terms here, pal.
  - kajecounterhack 9y ago
    Sorry. I meant to express that Google represents a company that has been successful at centralizing a lot of data, wealth, and engineering ability. Others include Apple, Amazon, Facebook, etc.
- zzzcpan 9y ago
  > many markets are naturally winner takes all I don't think this is true. "Winner takes all" is a predatory behavior and it is only possible with enormous concentration of wealth. Otherwise markets become full of small players and fair competition.
  - deong 9y ago
    Some markets do. There are many examples of markets that don't -- enough that there's a recognized term for it ("Natural Monopoly"). I would argue that the level of knowledge, talent, and engineering and scientific resources required to do what Google does forms a pretty effective natural barrier to a bunch of small players being able to compete.
ehsankia 9y ago
> spying [citation needed] > data hoarding Collecting data is "deeply unethical"? So then the census and hospital and anyone else who collects data are unethical too? > tracking You can disable location permission on everything. > privacy issues [citation needed] > their incentives are highly misaligned How is bringing you the most relevant data "misaligned"? That is their incentive as an ad company. Showing you things that you will like. > encourage unethical anti consumer behavior [citation needed]
- specialist 9y ago
  [citation needed] http://bfy.tw/G7Ox http://bfy.tw/G7Ox

fenwick67 9y ago

They're an advertising company that gets most of its profits by collecting personal information about people and trying to manipulate them into buying things. Sounds pretty unethical to me.

ehsankia 9y ago
That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is: They're an advertisement company that profits from showing you the most relevant data and things that you will like. It's all about perspective. You can take anything and spin it to be nefarious if you try hard enough.
- specialist 9y ago
  If google's personalization efforts actually created the filter bubble that I want, more more and less less, it'd be a fair trade. But they don't, so it isn't.
ptasci67 9y ago
Are billboards or radio stations or television channels unethical to you? Because they are also trying to "manipulate" you into buying things. Advertising is not inherently unethical. I want people to buy my product so I need to raise awareness of it, encourage people that it is the best, make them feel like they need it. I would even go so far as to say that Google's default anonymized model makes this far better. My preferences can be used to serve more meaningful ads to me which makes everyone happier. Eg, I was searching for tent reviews online. Saw an ad for a tent from a brand I had never heard of. Looked up their reviews and bought that tent. Unfortunately, they are a lot of bad actors in this space. Google is actively trying to weed them out. They are deeply incentivized to rid the internet of them because it means less ad blockers and less spam and more money for them. Any website you visit or app you use is going to collect some personal information about you. How many times have you questioned why you need to turn over your email to a stopwatch app. At least with Google's default-anonymized model, you are opting in to a fairly sweet deal. You volunteer things you are interested in so that Google can serve you better ads and keep the internet free (in the dollar sense) and the information you provide is not reversible back to you. Doesn't sound too unethical to me especially because it is all one big opt-in.