5 ms·

Don't think in terms of wide-body vs narrow-body. Think in terms of long-haul vs short-haul. The lifespan of a plane tends to have more to do with the number

Don't think in terms of wide-body vs narrow-body. Think in terms of long-haul vs short-haul. The lifespan of a plane tends to have more to do with the number of pressurization cycles it goes through (and the number of take-offs and landings) - they go together, after all. Pressurizing the plane stresses the plane, and eventually the frame just can't be trusted, no matter how good the airline is at maintaining the plane. Short-haul flights (say going back and forth between New York and Washington D.C.) could conceivably manage 5 round trips a day or more, which is much more stress than a plane flying one round trip per day between New York and London. Even most planes used for short-haul flights would be expected to last more than 10 years, and planes used for long-haul flights can be used for 30 years by major airlines. But keep in mind that airlines will certainly replace planes earlier if a newer plane has enough efficiency gains that will allow costs to recouped more quickly. Singapore Air returning this plane already (and there's a second as well) means that the plane simply isn't profitable (or profitable enough) for them to keep flying. Most likely whatever route this plane was used for will continue with a smaller flight that costs less to fly.

skgoa 9y ago
> Singapore Air returning this plane already (and there's a second as well) means that the plane simply isn't profitable (or profitable enough) for them to keep flying. Most likely whatever route this plane was used for will continue with a smaller flight that costs less to fly. They returned a plane at the end of its lease and got a newly built one on a new lease as a replacement. They are doing the same with their 4 remaining planes that are nearing the end of their leases. They seem to be happy with the 380.
- joelhaasnoot 9y ago
  Also remember that the first few A380s had lots of issues with wiring harnesses, performance, etc and so may not be completely up to spec.
  - skgoa 9y ago
    Exactly. The first 25 airframes (of which 22 were actually build to completion) have the wiring problems and were never expected to find much interest on the secondary market.
  - bdamm 9y ago
    In that case, the planes will likely be parted out. Wings and tail removed and likely installed on another A380 body.
- tallanvor 9y ago
  Interesting, I haven't seen that information. Do you have a link for that? --For my own interest, not because I don't believe you.
danmaz74 9y ago
> Singapore Air returning this plane already (and there's a second as well) means that the plane simply isn't profitable (or profitable enough) for them to keep flying. They were leasing that A380, and now they'll lease a newer and more efficient A380. The new one will be for sure more profitable for them, but you can't deduce the old one wasn't profitable.
- valuearb 9y ago
  There is no way a new A380 is more efficient in total cost of ownership given it’s going to cost more than twice as much. They took the biggest depreciation hit up front. If this made sense, all airlines would lease for 10 years and replace with new leases.
  - danmaz74 9y ago
    The comparison isn't with the potential new price of the old one, but with the old price of the old one. Say they were paying X per year for #1. Adjusted for inflation, they're going to pay roughly the same X per year for #2, but #2 is more efficient, AND in line with Singapore's positioning as a top airline with a very young fleet. I also expect that keeping #1 would have a lower lease cost, but a higher maintenance and insurance cost.
hangonhn 9y ago
Does this still apply to carbon fiber body planes like the 787? I know aluminum has can only be flexed so many times before it cracks but if the plane is made from a different material, would this rule still apply?
- gsnedders 9y ago
  Yes. Every material ultimately has a fatigue limit; there's nothing you can stress indefinitely without it eventually breaking. Now, other materials can move the number of possible cycles up and down, and potentially move the number up sufficiently that it becomes a non-concern (because other factors would drive airlines to sell and scrap the old aircraft), but it'll never be infinite.
  - ars 9y ago
    > Every material ultimately has a fatigue limit; there's nothing you can stress indefinitely without it eventually breaking. That's not entirely true, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit "Ferrous alloys and titanium alloys have a distinct limit, an amplitude below which there appears to be no number of cycles that will cause failure."

skgoa 9y ago

> Singapore Air returning this plane already (and there's a second as well) means that the plane simply isn't profitable (or profitable enough) for them to keep flying. Most likely whatever route this plane was used for will continue with a smaller flight that costs less to fly. They returned a plane at the end of its lease and got a newly built one on a new lease as a replacement. They are doing the same with their 4 remaining planes that are nearing the end of their leases. They seem to be happy with the 380.

joelhaasnoot 9y ago
Also remember that the first few A380s had lots of issues with wiring harnesses, performance, etc and so may not be completely up to spec.
- skgoa 9y ago
  Exactly. The first 25 airframes (of which 22 were actually build to completion) have the wiring problems and were never expected to find much interest on the secondary market.
- bdamm 9y ago
  In that case, the planes will likely be parted out. Wings and tail removed and likely installed on another A380 body.
tallanvor 9y ago
Interesting, I haven't seen that information. Do you have a link for that? --For my own interest, not because I don't believe you.

danmaz74 9y ago

> Singapore Air returning this plane already (and there's a second as well) means that the plane simply isn't profitable (or profitable enough) for them to keep flying. They were leasing that A380, and now they'll lease a newer and more efficient A380. The new one will be for sure more profitable for them, but you can't deduce the old one wasn't profitable.

valuearb 9y ago
There is no way a new A380 is more efficient in total cost of ownership given it’s going to cost more than twice as much. They took the biggest depreciation hit up front. If this made sense, all airlines would lease for 10 years and replace with new leases.
- danmaz74 9y ago
  The comparison isn't with the potential new price of the old one, but with the old price of the old one. Say they were paying X per year for #1. Adjusted for inflation, they're going to pay roughly the same X per year for #2, but #2 is more efficient, AND in line with Singapore's positioning as a top airline with a very young fleet. I also expect that keeping #1 would have a lower lease cost, but a higher maintenance and insurance cost.

hangonhn 9y ago

Does this still apply to carbon fiber body planes like the 787? I know aluminum has can only be flexed so many times before it cracks but if the plane is made from a different material, would this rule still apply?

gsnedders 9y ago
Yes. Every material ultimately has a fatigue limit; there's nothing you can stress indefinitely without it eventually breaking. Now, other materials can move the number of possible cycles up and down, and potentially move the number up sufficiently that it becomes a non-concern (because other factors would drive airlines to sell and scrap the old aircraft), but it'll never be infinite.
- ars 9y ago
  > Every material ultimately has a fatigue limit; there's nothing you can stress indefinitely without it eventually breaking. That's not entirely true, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit "Ferrous alloys and titanium alloys have a distinct limit, an amplitude below which there appears to be no number of cycles that will cause failure."