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the extra moving parts aren't...but I think the point was to remove the existing moving parts (installing and maintaining a server instance). they just got it w

the extra moving parts aren't...but I think the point was to remove the existing moving parts (installing and maintaining a server instance). they just got it wrong. it would save everyone a lot of time and energy to not have to deal with server instances, so its likely a better model will come along. persistent storage in the presence of scaling and concurrency is a bit of thorn though.

bamboozled 9y ago
That's the thing though, how hard is it to manage a VM in 2018? If you're using Terraform + modern config management tools I find it a breeze. I feel like this is a weak argument. If developers are unable to understand how something like Salt, Chef or Ansible works then I'd be surprised.
- convolvatron 9y ago
  its not that people cant understand [salt, chef, ansible, terraform], its just a non-trivial amount of human effort, error, and upkeep just to say 'run my program'. kind of a shame that every shop has to have one or a few devops people on hand to do that. I guess it mostly stings when there is a critical openssl update, or something analogous. Despite the ideal of continuous integration and lightweight deployment - none of the shops I've worked at lately can make than happen in the 10 minutes its supposed to take.
  - bamboozled 9y ago
    With all due respect, I think it’s laziness. Most of the good soft ens I know spend the one - two hours or so it takes to get familiar with these systems.
- com2kid 9y ago
  > If you're using Terraform + modern config management tools I find it a breeze. I feel like this is a weak argument. Writing a back-end for a mobile app right now. I need a few CRUD calls, but I also need stuff to stay in real-time sync between users. So far I've been able to sprinkle magic cloud fairy dust on things, solve auth, solve concurrency, and deployment is super easy. I originally thought about doing it on a VPS. Then I realized I'd have to deal with a bunch of issues that I Just Don't Want To Deal With Right Now, especially since I am trying to get an MVP out ASAP to validate my idea. The various cloud providers all offer nice, well tested, SDKs to do all of the nasty/boring work for me, and a single call on my command line deploys everything.

bamboozled 9y ago

That's the thing though, how hard is it to manage a VM in 2018? If you're using Terraform + modern config management tools I find it a breeze. I feel like this is a weak argument. If developers are unable to understand how something like Salt, Chef or Ansible works then I'd be surprised.

convolvatron 9y ago
its not that people cant understand [salt, chef, ansible, terraform], its just a non-trivial amount of human effort, error, and upkeep just to say 'run my program'. kind of a shame that every shop has to have one or a few devops people on hand to do that. I guess it mostly stings when there is a critical openssl update, or something analogous. Despite the ideal of continuous integration and lightweight deployment - none of the shops I've worked at lately can make than happen in the 10 minutes its supposed to take.
- bamboozled 9y ago
  With all due respect, I think it’s laziness. Most of the good soft ens I know spend the one - two hours or so it takes to get familiar with these systems.
com2kid 9y ago
> If you're using Terraform + modern config management tools I find it a breeze. I feel like this is a weak argument. Writing a back-end for a mobile app right now. I need a few CRUD calls, but I also need stuff to stay in real-time sync between users. So far I've been able to sprinkle magic cloud fairy dust on things, solve auth, solve concurrency, and deployment is super easy. I originally thought about doing it on a VPS. Then I realized I'd have to deal with a bunch of issues that I Just Don't Want To Deal With Right Now, especially since I am trying to get an MVP out ASAP to validate my idea. The various cloud providers all offer nice, well tested, SDKs to do all of the nasty/boring work for me, and a single call on my command line deploys everything.