5 ms·

Yes, this so-called high-speed transit requires going to the airport 2 hours early, going through onerous security and checkin processes, plus 30-40 minute boar

Yes, this so-called high-speed transit requires going to the airport 2 hours early, going through onerous security and checkin processes, plus 30-40 minute board times, airport runway/taxi delays, delays at the destination, deboarding, getting luggage, and getting from the airport to the destination. Mythbusters already tried this experiment, and they were able drive from SF to LA door to door in the same time it took to fly, end to end, 5 - 6 hrs. If you've ever traveled between cities in France or Japan on high speed rail you know its infinitely better than an airport. I can arrive at an Shinkansen 5 minutes before departure, travel a similar distance between SF->LA in 2.5hrs or less, in a super comfortable train, that I'm free to walk around it. At my destination, getting to/from the high speed rail is also super-convenient, hassle free, doesn't require driving, and overall, is cheap. Short distance air travel is majorly annoying no matter the cost. I hate the airport in/out experience.

toast0 9y ago
> At my destination, getting to/from the high speed rail is also super-convenient, hassle free, doesn't require driving, and overall, is cheap. This doesn't make a lot of sense in LA; you're going to a need a car wherever you end up -- it's huge sprawl; and most people aren't visiting to go to downtown LA, so they probably need a car. Can I rent a car at Union Station? Maybe (if I get there before 5pm), but do they have room to accommodate a larger facility needed if the volume increases? I can rent one at LAX, LGB, SNA, BUR, or any of the other LA area airports I forgot about.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > This doesn't make a lot of sense in LA; you're going to a need a car wherever you end up If only someone had thought to include regional transit improvements alongside and coordinated with HSR. Oh, wait, wait, they did.
  - toast0 9y ago
    Sure, if the HSR project ends up doing just regional transit improvements, and don't end up actually building the HSR, that's probably a better use of money. I expect HSR money is going to get Caltrain grade separation and electrification done, which seemed like it would take 30-50 years otherwise, even though it was planned to finish in 10 years for the last 20 years.
    - baud147258 9y ago
      From what happened in France, funding for high-speed rail usually means that maintenance get slashed for the rest of the network.
sseveran 9y ago
Now that I have Global Entry which also gives you TSA Pre security is a snap. I don't get to the airport 2 hours before, usually 15 to 20 minutes before we board if I am flying at a non-peak time. No taking off the shoes and no taking laptops out. Simple metal detector and that is it.
- dx034 9y ago
  20 minutes before boarding is 50 minutes before the plane leaves the gate and 60-80 min before take-off. You can stretch it and arrive 5 min before boarding but that's a very risky strategy, even with TSA Pre.
phil21 9y ago
2:40 minute head time at your departure city? No way. I typically show up roughly 60-45 minutes prior to flight time, so 15-30 minutes before boarding. By the time I get through security the plane is typically just starting to board and I walk right on. I have gotten my door to door times between MSP and ORD to just over (sometimes under if I get lucky on train to city) 3 hours including a 20 minute Uber on one end and a 40 minute train ride into the city on the other. Pretty similar distances involved. That's basically 2 hours from dropoff and pickup at the airports for an hour flight. > going through onerous security I imagine that in the US, this will be much the same. Or will be the moment after the first attack on a train. I don't see any long-term security gains here, the US is simply not Europe. Not that I think air travel is a decent replacement for high speed rail though, it's not. The security and time delays related to that I simply think are a long-term red herring within the US. Mostly because I remember air travel prior to 9/11. I also think comparing a single high speed rail line built in isolation to Europe or Japan isn't all that great of a comparison. In Japan or Europe I arrive in a train terminal and transfer to the local rapid transit that pretty much covers every city and every neighborhood I'd ever want to go to in a reasonable manner. The US... doesn't.
- erispoe 9y ago
  > I imagine that in the US, this will be much the same. Or will be the moment after the first attack on a train. I don't see any long-term security gains here, the US is simply not Europe. Even in Israel you don't have that kind of security check before boarding a train.
6t6t6t6 9y ago
Two other super convenient things about Shinkansen: - You always know how much the ticket will cost, no matter if you buy it the same day. - If you had a reserved seat but you missed your train, just take the next one and go to the free seat area. Also, if you didn't have reserved seat and the free seat area is full, wait 15 minutes and take the next train. (And yes, you can fly Tokyo - Osaka for cheaper than a Shinkansen ride, but the convenience of the Shinkansen is really higher than any flight.)
- CaptainZapp 9y ago
  That and I'd add the following: - While it's completely acceptable to eat fermented fish out of a bento box using your phone to make calls is a comlete no!no! That leads to a very quiet, peaceful and smooth train experience. Also, if you visit Japan as a foreigner look at JR Rail Pass. A three week pass for the green car (1st class) will cost ~80'000 yen ($720) and is a comperative bargain if you make use of it. For example: Tokyo to Sapporo [which is Shinkansen to Hakodate only] and back is more than 92K.
  - 6t6t6t6 9y ago
    > Also, if you visit Japan as a foreigner look at JR Rail Pass. A three week pass for the green car (1st class) will cost ~80'000 yen ($720) and is a comperative bargain if you make use of it. OMG I regret so much that I didn't take advantage of that when I was on a tourist visa... :'/
baud147258 9y ago
To be fair distances in France make air travel a less interesting proposition than in the US.

toast0 9y ago

> At my destination, getting to/from the high speed rail is also super-convenient, hassle free, doesn't require driving, and overall, is cheap. This doesn't make a lot of sense in LA; you're going to a need a car wherever you end up -- it's huge sprawl; and most people aren't visiting to go to downtown LA, so they probably need a car. Can I rent a car at Union Station? Maybe (if I get there before 5pm), but do they have room to accommodate a larger facility needed if the volume increases? I can rent one at LAX, LGB, SNA, BUR, or any of the other LA area airports I forgot about.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> This doesn't make a lot of sense in LA; you're going to a need a car wherever you end up If only someone had thought to include regional transit improvements alongside and coordinated with HSR. Oh, wait, wait, they did.
- toast0 9y ago
  Sure, if the HSR project ends up doing just regional transit improvements, and don't end up actually building the HSR, that's probably a better use of money. I expect HSR money is going to get Caltrain grade separation and electrification done, which seemed like it would take 30-50 years otherwise, even though it was planned to finish in 10 years for the last 20 years.
  - baud147258 9y ago
    From what happened in France, funding for high-speed rail usually means that maintenance get slashed for the rest of the network.

sseveran 9y ago

Now that I have Global Entry which also gives you TSA Pre security is a snap. I don't get to the airport 2 hours before, usually 15 to 20 minutes before we board if I am flying at a non-peak time. No taking off the shoes and no taking laptops out. Simple metal detector and that is it.

dx034 9y ago
20 minutes before boarding is 50 minutes before the plane leaves the gate and 60-80 min before take-off. You can stretch it and arrive 5 min before boarding but that's a very risky strategy, even with TSA Pre.

phil21 9y ago

2:40 minute head time at your departure city? No way. I typically show up roughly 60-45 minutes prior to flight time, so 15-30 minutes before boarding. By the time I get through security the plane is typically just starting to board and I walk right on. I have gotten my door to door times between MSP and ORD to just over (sometimes under if I get lucky on train to city) 3 hours including a 20 minute Uber on one end and a 40 minute train ride into the city on the other. Pretty similar distances involved. That's basically 2 hours from dropoff and pickup at the airports for an hour flight. > going through onerous security I imagine that in the US, this will be much the same. Or will be the moment after the first attack on a train. I don't see any long-term security gains here, the US is simply not Europe. Not that I think air travel is a decent replacement for high speed rail though, it's not. The security and time delays related to that I simply think are a long-term red herring within the US. Mostly because I remember air travel prior to 9/11. I also think comparing a single high speed rail line built in isolation to Europe or Japan isn't all that great of a comparison. In Japan or Europe I arrive in a train terminal and transfer to the local rapid transit that pretty much covers every city and every neighborhood I'd ever want to go to in a reasonable manner. The US... doesn't.

erispoe 9y ago
> I imagine that in the US, this will be much the same. Or will be the moment after the first attack on a train. I don't see any long-term security gains here, the US is simply not Europe. Even in Israel you don't have that kind of security check before boarding a train.

6t6t6t6 9y ago

Two other super convenient things about Shinkansen: - You always know how much the ticket will cost, no matter if you buy it the same day. - If you had a reserved seat but you missed your train, just take the next one and go to the free seat area. Also, if you didn't have reserved seat and the free seat area is full, wait 15 minutes and take the next train. (And yes, you can fly Tokyo - Osaka for cheaper than a Shinkansen ride, but the convenience of the Shinkansen is really higher than any flight.)

CaptainZapp 9y ago
That and I'd add the following: - While it's completely acceptable to eat fermented fish out of a bento box using your phone to make calls is a comlete no!no! That leads to a very quiet, peaceful and smooth train experience. Also, if you visit Japan as a foreigner look at JR Rail Pass. A three week pass for the green car (1st class) will cost ~80'000 yen ($720) and is a comperative bargain if you make use of it. For example: Tokyo to Sapporo [which is Shinkansen to Hakodate only] and back is more than 92K.
- 6t6t6t6 9y ago
  > Also, if you visit Japan as a foreigner look at JR Rail Pass. A three week pass for the green car (1st class) will cost ~80'000 yen ($720) and is a comperative bargain if you make use of it. OMG I regret so much that I didn't take advantage of that when I was on a tourist visa... :'/

baud147258 9y ago

To be fair distances in France make air travel a less interesting proposition than in the US.