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"DOL has masked the fact that this rule would be a windfall to restaurant owners and other employers—out of the pockets of tipped workers—by making it sound as

"DOL has masked the fact that this rule would be a windfall to restaurant owners and other employers—out of the pockets of tipped workers—by making it sound as if this rule is about tip pooling." Sounds like this one must've been written by lobbyists? Assuming this article is accurate, why would this seem like a good rule to get rid of?

oh_sigh 9y ago
EPI gets a large chunk of funding from unionized labor, so it shouldn't be surprising if most of their findings are pro unionized labor.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  The percentage of unionized workers in the restaurant business I would estimate at less than one percent - maybe if we count employees of schools/universities there would be an uptick. What you say may be true about other findings from EPI but it's probably more accurate to call this pro rank and file employee. http://smallbusiness.chron.com/organized-labor-restaurant-industry-35959.html http://smallbusiness.chron.com/organized-labor-restaurant-in...
philipkglass 9y ago
The politicians driving the change found that restaurant owners are better donors than waitstaff. Or they're ideologically committed to the freedom of the economically strong to wield their strength against the weak. Take your pick.
stevenwoo 9y ago
You kind of answered it yourself, restaurant owners have lobbyists and can donate big to political candidates/movements. The Papa John's pizza founder was pretty notable in the last election cycle and the Domino's pizza founder was pretty big money guy behind the scenes last time I looked. Employees at restaurants won't have lobbyists unless they are unionized.
koolba 9y ago
Pure guess but probably to allow for proper taxing of tips. Cash tips are notoriously underreported. I’ve never met any who receives them who claims the full value as income. Most will claim some min to meet a “normal” amount for a work day and pocket the rest. A law like this would shift that to be income received by the management which presumably they’d have to properly account for. Even if they give it all back immediately there would be a paper trail. If that’s the case then I think this is stupid. I love the fact that I can tip someone in cash that’s predominantly off the books. Makes me feel like I’m giving them an extra X%.
- briandear 9y ago
  So you like to facilitate tax evasion? So that tax that's not being paid gets paid by some other schmuck -- like the cooks or the busboys that don't generally work from tips?
  - koolba 9y ago
    Essentially yes. I explicitly tip in cash to allow for the option. It’s up to the receiver to make that determination and I clearly can’t force them to do so. Part of it is an assumption on my part that someone working as a waiter isn’t exactly on the highest rung of society (economically) and could use a hand. It costs me nothing extra to do so yet could have some value for them. I also go out of my way to directly tip bus boys. Again for all the same reasons as above. The only cooks I’ve tipped are those with direct interaction with me as a customer. So omelette station, street vendor, or mom and pop diner with one of them operating the kitchen. It’s not that I don’t think other cooks deserve tips, it’s just not feasible to tip them and I assume if they’re in a position not to receive them then their wages should reflect that.
  - Gargoyle 9y ago
    I dunno how it works everywhere, but when I worked as a busboy and then later as a barback (similar job), I was paid a percentage of the tips from each waitress or bartender, directly from each individual to me.
briandear 9y ago
Here's an idea -- why don't we let business owners decide how to pay their people? If waiters don't like tip pooling, then they can work for another restaurant that doesn't do it. It's ridiculous that the government even gets involved in this -- assuming minimum wage is met and taxes are being properly paid -- what business is it of the government how restaurants operate (beyond health and safety obviously.) Does the government get involved how a car saleman's commissions are paid? How about the compensation structure of other sales-based professions?
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Because businesses tend to make very poor decisions regarding these things, and they have more power than the employees.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Most employers (especially of cheap labor) will take advantage of their employees to the fullest extent of the law. If stealing tips is legal, there won't be "another restaurant that doesn't do it." We are talking about owners being legally allowed to pocket money that was given directly to their employees to keep. How can you possibly think actual theft is a "free market" issue?

oh_sigh 9y ago

EPI gets a large chunk of funding from unionized labor, so it shouldn't be surprising if most of their findings are pro unionized labor.

stevenwoo 9y ago
The percentage of unionized workers in the restaurant business I would estimate at less than one percent - maybe if we count employees of schools/universities there would be an uptick. What you say may be true about other findings from EPI but it's probably more accurate to call this pro rank and file employee. http://smallbusiness.chron.com/organized-labor-restaurant-industry-35959.html http://smallbusiness.chron.com/organized-labor-restaurant-in...

philipkglass 9y ago

The politicians driving the change found that restaurant owners are better donors than waitstaff. Or they're ideologically committed to the freedom of the economically strong to wield their strength against the weak. Take your pick.

stevenwoo 9y ago

You kind of answered it yourself, restaurant owners have lobbyists and can donate big to political candidates/movements. The Papa John's pizza founder was pretty notable in the last election cycle and the Domino's pizza founder was pretty big money guy behind the scenes last time I looked. Employees at restaurants won't have lobbyists unless they are unionized.

koolba 9y ago

Pure guess but probably to allow for proper taxing of tips. Cash tips are notoriously underreported. I’ve never met any who receives them who claims the full value as income. Most will claim some min to meet a “normal” amount for a work day and pocket the rest. A law like this would shift that to be income received by the management which presumably they’d have to properly account for. Even if they give it all back immediately there would be a paper trail. If that’s the case then I think this is stupid. I love the fact that I can tip someone in cash that’s predominantly off the books. Makes me feel like I’m giving them an extra X%.

briandear 9y ago
So you like to facilitate tax evasion? So that tax that's not being paid gets paid by some other schmuck -- like the cooks or the busboys that don't generally work from tips?
- koolba 9y ago
  Essentially yes. I explicitly tip in cash to allow for the option. It’s up to the receiver to make that determination and I clearly can’t force them to do so. Part of it is an assumption on my part that someone working as a waiter isn’t exactly on the highest rung of society (economically) and could use a hand. It costs me nothing extra to do so yet could have some value for them. I also go out of my way to directly tip bus boys. Again for all the same reasons as above. The only cooks I’ve tipped are those with direct interaction with me as a customer. So omelette station, street vendor, or mom and pop diner with one of them operating the kitchen. It’s not that I don’t think other cooks deserve tips, it’s just not feasible to tip them and I assume if they’re in a position not to receive them then their wages should reflect that.
- Gargoyle 9y ago
  I dunno how it works everywhere, but when I worked as a busboy and then later as a barback (similar job), I was paid a percentage of the tips from each waitress or bartender, directly from each individual to me.

briandear 9y ago

Here's an idea -- why don't we let business owners decide how to pay their people? If waiters don't like tip pooling, then they can work for another restaurant that doesn't do it. It's ridiculous that the government even gets involved in this -- assuming minimum wage is met and taxes are being properly paid -- what business is it of the government how restaurants operate (beyond health and safety obviously.) Does the government get involved how a car saleman's commissions are paid? How about the compensation structure of other sales-based professions?

s73ver_ 9y ago
Because businesses tend to make very poor decisions regarding these things, and they have more power than the employees.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Most employers (especially of cheap labor) will take advantage of their employees to the fullest extent of the law. If stealing tips is legal, there won't be "another restaurant that doesn't do it." We are talking about owners being legally allowed to pocket money that was given directly to their employees to keep. How can you possibly think actual theft is a "free market" issue?