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I don't understand how an American can manage this thought. It runs in the face of every stated ideal and philosophical underpinning of this dear republic. I'll

by Helmet 9y ago

I don't understand how an American can manage this thought. It runs in the face of every stated ideal and philosophical underpinning of this dear republic. I'll refer you to the concept of natural rights, Locke, Paine, the Deceleration of the Independence, the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution, and the entirety of classical liberal philosophy.

beat 9y ago
I don't buy the idea of "natural rights" in general. That doesn't mean I think constitutional democracy is a bad idea. It's just a good idea for different reasons. Believing that the concept of owning property is inseparable from a government that defines property and resolves property disputes doesn't make me un-American. Sheesh.
- taurath 9y ago
  The argument is absurd, because anyone more powerful than you can and will take your property by force unless you have the backing of a society.
yongjik 9y ago
The Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights were written when land was one virtually unlimited resource in the US. Because it was sparsely populated (even more sparsely than a few centuries before that), and most of its inhabitants simply didn't matter. Let's stop pretending that the 18th century understanding of society transcends time just because this nation happened to be founded at that particular era.
phil248 9y ago
So does the lack of universal voting rights for a couple hundred years. Sometimes old ideas are wrong and should be mocked an then ignored.
- Helmet 9y ago
  The lack of universal voting rights, as well as slavery, existed despite what I mentioned, not because of it. The Declaration of Independence is quite unequivocal: ...all men are created equal...endowed..with certain unalienable rights... All you have shown is that we as people are flawed, even when the truth is right there in front of us.
jachee 9y ago
Think you own your land/house/other real-estate? Try not paying the taxes on it. See how long you "own" it.

by Helmet 9y ago

beat 9y ago

I don't buy the idea of "natural rights" in general. That doesn't mean I think constitutional democracy is a bad idea. It's just a good idea for different reasons. Believing that the concept of owning property is inseparable from a government that defines property and resolves property disputes doesn't make me un-American. Sheesh.

taurath 9y ago
The argument is absurd, because anyone more powerful than you can and will take your property by force unless you have the backing of a society.

yongjik 9y ago

The Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights were written when land was one virtually unlimited resource in the US. Because it was sparsely populated (even more sparsely than a few centuries before that), and most of its inhabitants simply didn't matter. Let's stop pretending that the 18th century understanding of society transcends time just because this nation happened to be founded at that particular era.

phil248 9y ago

So does the lack of universal voting rights for a couple hundred years. Sometimes old ideas are wrong and should be mocked an then ignored.

Helmet 9y ago
The lack of universal voting rights, as well as slavery, existed despite what I mentioned, not because of it. The Declaration of Independence is quite unequivocal: ...all men are created equal...endowed..with certain unalienable rights... All you have shown is that we as people are flawed, even when the truth is right there in front of us.

jachee 9y ago

Think you own your land/house/other real-estate? Try not paying the taxes on it. See how long you "own" it.