4 ms·

Not to excuse or condone the president's behavior in any way, but it is not at all obvious how the word "shithole" is racist. I take issue with this because thi

by chmln 9y ago

Not to excuse or condone the president's behavior in any way, but it is not at all obvious how the word "shithole" is racist. I take issue with this because this word is so overused that it is losing any meaning. There are many light-skinned countries that can also be considered as undesirable places to live. Poverty, violence, and corruption can be quite common outside the western world (e.g. many post-soviet countries). 90s Russia is a prominent example of one such place, but lets just say Russians generally have a fair complexion.

creaghpatr 9y ago
I don't think it was meant to be an objective descriptor, but technically Haiti does suffer from a lot of sanitation problems https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/18/490468640/u-n-admits-role-in-haiti-cholera-outbreak-that-has-killed-thousands https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/18/490468640...
ocschwar 9y ago
The word "shithole" isn't racist. And any of my Haitian neighbors will confirm, anywhere you go in Haiti, you put your life in your hands if you try to drink tap water, which by common definition is what makes a place a shithole. That's not the issue. Ok. Haiti is a shithole, which is why my city is full of Haitians taking any work they can and sending money home to make the country fit for safe human habitation. What Trump was saying is that because Haiti is a shithole, my Haitian neighbors should be rounded up and sent back there, and prevented from what they're currently doing for their country with remittances from the US. There is no way to explain that comment as anything but pure distilled racism.
- judah 9y ago
  >> "What Trump was saying is that because Haiti is a shithole, my Haitian neighbors should be rounded up and sent back there" You're projecting. Trump's comment was that we should discourage immigration from places with low-skill labor. There was nothing in his statement about rounding up existing legal immigrants and revoking their citizenship.
  - ocschwar 9y ago
    You're giving him way too much credit. And he's already taking concrete steps to round up Haitians and send them back.
    - judah 9y ago
      Your comment asserted that Trump's purported "sh--hole" comment referred to rounding up legal US immigrants and revoking their citizenship. I challenged that; the President was referring to discouraging immigration from nations with low-skilled labor. (It has nothing to do with existing immigrants. It has nothing to do with race; otherwise we would have to say President Obama was an anti-Semite for his administration calling[0] Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu "chickensh--") Now you are saying that the President is taking steps to round up legal Haitian immigrants and revoke their citizenship. That doesn't address the issue about the "sh--hole comment" -- you're moving the goalposts -- nor did you cite sources to make that assertion. [0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/10/29/some-background-to-the-chickenshit-controversy/?utm_term=.9c7efb08c2a0 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
      - ocschwar 9y ago
        https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-haitians-agricultural-seasonal-worker-visas-n838581 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-hai... Well? Justify this.
        judah 9y ago
        This is precisely what I'm talking about. It shows the President limiting the number of temporary work visas for low-skill workers. The original comment said that the President was revoking citizenship for legal citizens based on race. That's what I challenged as false. And your link confirms this.
  - ap3 9y ago
    Where did he say anything about low skill labor? Now you are projecting
empath75 9y ago
The use of the word shithole to describe the conditions of certain countries is vulgar but not necessarily racist. It was a combination of his connection of Latin American and African countries to shitholes in contrast specifically to Norway. And the root of the problem and what made it racist is the implication that people from shithole countries weren’t worthy of emigrating to the US solely for the misfortune of having been born there. Which would be merely bigoted in the absence of his description of the entire continent of Africa as a shithole, but is racist in the full context of his tirade. Furthermore, to give the president the benefit of the doubt, one would have to ignore the copious evidence of his racism from his days as a landlord refusing to rent to black people, to his race baiting in the Central Park rape case, to his racist tirades against Mexicans in the campaign, etc, etc.

by chmln 9y ago

creaghpatr 9y ago

I don't think it was meant to be an objective descriptor, but technically Haiti does suffer from a lot of sanitation problems https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/18/490468640/u-n-admits-role-in-haiti-cholera-outbreak-that-has-killed-thousands https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/18/490468640...

ocschwar 9y ago

The word "shithole" isn't racist. And any of my Haitian neighbors will confirm, anywhere you go in Haiti, you put your life in your hands if you try to drink tap water, which by common definition is what makes a place a shithole. That's not the issue. Ok. Haiti is a shithole, which is why my city is full of Haitians taking any work they can and sending money home to make the country fit for safe human habitation. What Trump was saying is that because Haiti is a shithole, my Haitian neighbors should be rounded up and sent back there, and prevented from what they're currently doing for their country with remittances from the US. There is no way to explain that comment as anything but pure distilled racism.

judah 9y ago
>> "What Trump was saying is that because Haiti is a shithole, my Haitian neighbors should be rounded up and sent back there" You're projecting. Trump's comment was that we should discourage immigration from places with low-skill labor. There was nothing in his statement about rounding up existing legal immigrants and revoking their citizenship.
- ocschwar 9y ago
  You're giving him way too much credit. And he's already taking concrete steps to round up Haitians and send them back.
  - judah 9y ago
    Your comment asserted that Trump's purported "sh--hole" comment referred to rounding up legal US immigrants and revoking their citizenship. I challenged that; the President was referring to discouraging immigration from nations with low-skilled labor. (It has nothing to do with existing immigrants. It has nothing to do with race; otherwise we would have to say President Obama was an anti-Semite for his administration calling[0] Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu "chickensh--") Now you are saying that the President is taking steps to round up legal Haitian immigrants and revoke their citizenship. That doesn't address the issue about the "sh--hole comment" -- you're moving the goalposts -- nor did you cite sources to make that assertion. [0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/10/29/some-background-to-the-chickenshit-controversy/?utm_term=.9c7efb08c2a0 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
    - ocschwar 9y ago
      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-haitians-agricultural-seasonal-worker-visas-n838581 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-moves-bar-hai... Well? Justify this.
      - judah 9y ago
        This is precisely what I'm talking about. It shows the President limiting the number of temporary work visas for low-skill workers. The original comment said that the President was revoking citizenship for legal citizens based on race. That's what I challenged as false. And your link confirms this.
- ap3 9y ago
  Where did he say anything about low skill labor? Now you are projecting

empath75 9y ago

The use of the word shithole to describe the conditions of certain countries is vulgar but not necessarily racist. It was a combination of his connection of Latin American and African countries to shitholes in contrast specifically to Norway. And the root of the problem and what made it racist is the implication that people from shithole countries weren’t worthy of emigrating to the US solely for the misfortune of having been born there. Which would be merely bigoted in the absence of his description of the entire continent of Africa as a shithole, but is racist in the full context of his tirade. Furthermore, to give the president the benefit of the doubt, one would have to ignore the copious evidence of his racism from his days as a landlord refusing to rent to black people, to his race baiting in the Central Park rape case, to his racist tirades against Mexicans in the campaign, etc, etc.