4 ms·

This is a critical question, public defenders in the USA practically force their clients to plede out, due to massive caseload.

by throwaway2048 9y ago

emodendroket 9y ago
Also one easily answered by the article. > But he was continually at odds with his public defenders, eventually firing them for refusing to file subpoenas he prepared for a dozen witnesses, who he said could support his alibi defense and other claims. He briefly acted as his own lawyer until his parents hired Larry English to defend him, and even then, the defendant continued to file motions in his own defense. > English repeatedly advised McCoy to plead guilty in exchange for life in prison instead of the death penalty or to plead not guilty by reason of insanity, but McCoy repeatedly refused, insisting that he was innocent.
- jandrese 9y ago
  This is an unenviable position, to be innocent but everybody else assumes you're guilty and you don't have the resources to mount a proper defense so the "best" advice you can get is to lie and say that you are guilty so maybe the state won't kill you. This is how innocent people end up on death row.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    I agree that it's a serious issue, but it seems kind of ancillary to this one.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > This is an unenviable position, to be innocent but everybody else assumes you're guilty A lawyer advising you to plea guilty is not necessarily assuming you are guilty any more than a lawyer saying that you have a solid basis for a not guilty plea necessarily assumes you are factually not guilty. The lawyer is advising you on their opinion of where you will get the best (which may merely be “least terrible”) result from the legal system. Now, they may or may not be doing a decent job of that, but that's a different issue.
milesvp 9y ago
Not from my experience. In the US I personally know a couple of public defenders, and while their case loads are big, the reason they plead guilty so much is because that's the game that the prosecutors play. The prosecutors want a slam dunk, but a trial may find the defendant not guilty. So the prosecutor trades certainty for reduced sentences. If you're lucky, you can trade down to a misdemeanor to avoid felony charges, in which case pleading guilty is a no brainer since felonies take away a lot of liberties. As a side note, I've been told that public defenders will actually tend to get better deals from prosecutors than private counsel because they have to work together so much that they tend to know when the prosecutor will bend. Also, I do not condone plea bargaining. I think it generally distorts justice in ways that are very corrupt, and create very mis-aligned incentives.

This is a critical question, public defenders in the USA practically force their clients to plede out, due to massive caseload.

emodendroket 9y ago

Also one easily answered by the article. > But he was continually at odds with his public defenders, eventually firing them for refusing to file subpoenas he prepared for a dozen witnesses, who he said could support his alibi defense and other claims. He briefly acted as his own lawyer until his parents hired Larry English to defend him, and even then, the defendant continued to file motions in his own defense. > English repeatedly advised McCoy to plead guilty in exchange for life in prison instead of the death penalty or to plead not guilty by reason of insanity, but McCoy repeatedly refused, insisting that he was innocent.

jandrese 9y ago
This is an unenviable position, to be innocent but everybody else assumes you're guilty and you don't have the resources to mount a proper defense so the "best" advice you can get is to lie and say that you are guilty so maybe the state won't kill you. This is how innocent people end up on death row.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  I agree that it's a serious issue, but it seems kind of ancillary to this one.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > This is an unenviable position, to be innocent but everybody else assumes you're guilty A lawyer advising you to plea guilty is not necessarily assuming you are guilty any more than a lawyer saying that you have a solid basis for a not guilty plea necessarily assumes you are factually not guilty. The lawyer is advising you on their opinion of where you will get the best (which may merely be “least terrible”) result from the legal system. Now, they may or may not be doing a decent job of that, but that's a different issue.

milesvp 9y ago

Not from my experience. In the US I personally know a couple of public defenders, and while their case loads are big, the reason they plead guilty so much is because that's the game that the prosecutors play. The prosecutors want a slam dunk, but a trial may find the defendant not guilty. So the prosecutor trades certainty for reduced sentences. If you're lucky, you can trade down to a misdemeanor to avoid felony charges, in which case pleading guilty is a no brainer since felonies take away a lot of liberties. As a side note, I've been told that public defenders will actually tend to get better deals from prosecutors than private counsel because they have to work together so much that they tend to know when the prosecutor will bend. Also, I do not condone plea bargaining. I think it generally distorts justice in ways that are very corrupt, and create very mis-aligned incentives.