11 ms·

IT is not CS. Not even similar.

by w8rbt 9y ago

xcryogenicx 9y ago
AS in CS working in IT here, can confirm. My college classes were programming C++, physics, calculus, and hardware architectures. Barely anything to do with IT.
- datguacdoh 9y ago
  We actually expect our support team (at least portions of them) to build internal apps that automate workflows for ops work or for users. It's not always as complex as a full soft eng role, but some of our IT staff do move on to those positions internally based on the work they do in IT. I think it really depends on the company you do IT for, and what they expect for the role. At Google, our IT staff are full time engineers. Disclosure: I worked on this program and went through Google's IT Residency Program.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > At Google, our IT staff are full time engineers. If this course is based on this view of the IT Support role (which I heartily approve of, but which is not the baseline norm in the industry) it really should be called the IT Support Engineering Professional Certificate or something similar, because otherwise it won't communicate it's real focus either to applicants or, perhaps more critically, hiring officers.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Are you talking about SRE? They're full time engineers with CS degrees, they have nothing to do with IT.
    - datguacdoh 9y ago
      SRE are different, I'm talking about IT staff. The job title is corporate operations engineer.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
  Depends on what level of IT you're working at. There are segments of the market where the various computer-related jobs that need to be done aren't neatly siloed.
debt 9y ago
I disagree completely. IT is going the opposite way, much of the maintenance is becoming commodified so the more complex tasks almost always involved writing actual code. It's become more of a SWE org everywhere. It's funny because SWE peeps get really defensive about IT vs SWE roles; like they don't want to be associated with IT for some ego-related reason.
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  I vehemently disagree. The whole SWE/DevOps trend isn't super popular once you leave Silicon Valley. At the end of the day, most businesses still use Windows, and most IT staff are telling people how to print correctly and resetting the passwords people forgot for the umteenth time this week. This isn't going to change in the near future, and I assume Google's IT Support certificate is either teaching the skills necessary for these things... or not going to be a useful certificate for anyone trying to get a job. If anything, that's the weirdest thing, Google's doing an IT cert? Are they teaching Microsoft platforms and being useful, or are they trying to teach Google's Chrome management platform that nobody uses? If Google's willing to hire graduates, it presumably teaches Google's IT stack... which isn't remotely similar to the IT stack people will find in other companies.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    Good software can move that IT job to a cheaper admin job. If printers are easy to install, or passwords are easy to reset, then the admin can just say “the printer nearest to you is Floor3-South. Go into Printers and select it” leaving IT to just maintain the printer and not have to coach users.
    - oblio 9y ago
      Have you seen printer software? Those jobs are safe for the foreseeable future :)
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Those IT people are dinosaurs. Many of these folks are around, but the job openings are slim because they are attriting away. 80% of traditional IT hocus pocus can be automated or performed by an office manager or admin.
booleandilemma 9y ago
My college has a separate major for each. A lot of people in my class dropped out of the CS program because they had confused the two. I really think we should rename “computer science” to “computing science” or “computational science” - just please get the word “computer” out of there.
- influx 9y ago
  More like Computational Mathematics
  - gaius 9y ago
    Discrete Mathematics is the actual term “integers, graphs and statements in logic” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_mathematics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_mathematics
    - comstock 9y ago
      But you generally can’t get a degree in it (I don’t believe I’ve seen one). But wow, a discrete mathematics undergrad degree sounds like a lot of fun.
kbwt 9y ago
It seems to be a common confusion in the EU. A lot of people refer to CS as IT where I live.
- willbw 9y ago
  In Australia IT is also a broader term encompassing development of software.
- ClassyJacket 9y ago
  Here in Australia, most people just think "literally anything to do with computers = IT". So when I talked to course counselors they said if I wanted to be a programmer, I had to do an IT degree. Not even close. Software engineering, or maybe CS, is what I wanted. I hadn't even heard the phrase "computer science" when I started university. The total incompetence of the course counselors at the core function of their job contributed to putting me on a path that eventually lead to the ruin of my life. I did a degree that claimed to contain software development, but was in the IT category - I never learned of the concept of version control (at all), how to use makefiles, exception blocks, performance profiling, or a bunch of other practical stuff. Now I'm wasting away in an IT support job. I can't blame everything on that, and most of the responsibility for where I am today is on me - especially for not turning it around better after I realised my mistakes, but I feel like the confusion between "IT", "CS", and "Software engineering" definitely kickstarted a path that wasted alot of my most valuable learning time. Don't trust course counselors - or other people in general.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    In the US, at least, outside of Silicon Valley, the type of degree isn't necessarily a barrier. Some of the best developers, DBAs, system engineers, etc, I've hired had history degrees, math degrees, journalism, EE, etc. The degree itself, for me, is just proof that you finished something important. I care more about what you know, and how well you can learn something new. I don't think I'm that unique in this respect. The tech shops I've worked in over my career were full of non-CS degreed people. Mostly my experience here, though, is with non tech companies. Things like the IT departments in Healthcare, Travel, Automotive, etc.
ForHackernews 9y ago
Software engineering isn't CS, either, but everyone acts like a CS degree is helpful for doing that job.

IT is not CS. Not even similar.

by w8rbt 9y ago

IT is not CS. Not even similar.

AS in CS working in IT here, can confirm. My college classes were programming C++, physics, calculus, and hardware architectures. Barely anything to do with IT.

datguacdoh 9y ago
We actually expect our support team (at least portions of them) to build internal apps that automate workflows for ops work or for users. It's not always as complex as a full soft eng role, but some of our IT staff do move on to those positions internally based on the work they do in IT. I think it really depends on the company you do IT for, and what they expect for the role. At Google, our IT staff are full time engineers. Disclosure: I worked on this program and went through Google's IT Residency Program.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > At Google, our IT staff are full time engineers. If this course is based on this view of the IT Support role (which I heartily approve of, but which is not the baseline norm in the industry) it really should be called the IT Support Engineering Professional Certificate or something similar, because otherwise it won't communicate it's real focus either to applicants or, perhaps more critically, hiring officers.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Are you talking about SRE? They're full time engineers with CS degrees, they have nothing to do with IT.
  - datguacdoh 9y ago
    SRE are different, I'm talking about IT staff. The job title is corporate operations engineer.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
Depends on what level of IT you're working at. There are segments of the market where the various computer-related jobs that need to be done aren't neatly siloed.

debt 9y ago

I disagree completely. IT is going the opposite way, much of the maintenance is becoming commodified so the more complex tasks almost always involved writing actual code. It's become more of a SWE org everywhere. It's funny because SWE peeps get really defensive about IT vs SWE roles; like they don't want to be associated with IT for some ego-related reason.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
I vehemently disagree. The whole SWE/DevOps trend isn't super popular once you leave Silicon Valley. At the end of the day, most businesses still use Windows, and most IT staff are telling people how to print correctly and resetting the passwords people forgot for the umteenth time this week. This isn't going to change in the near future, and I assume Google's IT Support certificate is either teaching the skills necessary for these things... or not going to be a useful certificate for anyone trying to get a job. If anything, that's the weirdest thing, Google's doing an IT cert? Are they teaching Microsoft platforms and being useful, or are they trying to teach Google's Chrome management platform that nobody uses? If Google's willing to hire graduates, it presumably teaches Google's IT stack... which isn't remotely similar to the IT stack people will find in other companies.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  Good software can move that IT job to a cheaper admin job. If printers are easy to install, or passwords are easy to reset, then the admin can just say “the printer nearest to you is Floor3-South. Go into Printers and select it” leaving IT to just maintain the printer and not have to coach users.
  - oblio 9y ago
    Have you seen printer software? Those jobs are safe for the foreseeable future :)
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Those IT people are dinosaurs. Many of these folks are around, but the job openings are slim because they are attriting away. 80% of traditional IT hocus pocus can be automated or performed by an office manager or admin.

booleandilemma 9y ago

My college has a separate major for each. A lot of people in my class dropped out of the CS program because they had confused the two. I really think we should rename “computer science” to “computing science” or “computational science” - just please get the word “computer” out of there.

influx 9y ago
More like Computational Mathematics
- gaius 9y ago
  Discrete Mathematics is the actual term “integers, graphs and statements in logic” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_mathematics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_mathematics
  - comstock 9y ago
    But you generally can’t get a degree in it (I don’t believe I’ve seen one). But wow, a discrete mathematics undergrad degree sounds like a lot of fun.

kbwt 9y ago

It seems to be a common confusion in the EU. A lot of people refer to CS as IT where I live.

willbw 9y ago
In Australia IT is also a broader term encompassing development of software.
ClassyJacket 9y ago
Here in Australia, most people just think "literally anything to do with computers = IT". So when I talked to course counselors they said if I wanted to be a programmer, I had to do an IT degree. Not even close. Software engineering, or maybe CS, is what I wanted. I hadn't even heard the phrase "computer science" when I started university. The total incompetence of the course counselors at the core function of their job contributed to putting me on a path that eventually lead to the ruin of my life. I did a degree that claimed to contain software development, but was in the IT category - I never learned of the concept of version control (at all), how to use makefiles, exception blocks, performance profiling, or a bunch of other practical stuff. Now I'm wasting away in an IT support job. I can't blame everything on that, and most of the responsibility for where I am today is on me - especially for not turning it around better after I realised my mistakes, but I feel like the confusion between "IT", "CS", and "Software engineering" definitely kickstarted a path that wasted alot of my most valuable learning time. Don't trust course counselors - or other people in general.
- tyingq 9y ago
  In the US, at least, outside of Silicon Valley, the type of degree isn't necessarily a barrier. Some of the best developers, DBAs, system engineers, etc, I've hired had history degrees, math degrees, journalism, EE, etc. The degree itself, for me, is just proof that you finished something important. I care more about what you know, and how well you can learn something new. I don't think I'm that unique in this respect. The tech shops I've worked in over my career were full of non-CS degreed people. Mostly my experience here, though, is with non tech companies. Things like the IT departments in Healthcare, Travel, Automotive, etc.

ForHackernews 9y ago

Software engineering isn't CS, either, but everyone acts like a CS degree is helpful for doing that job.