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Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow The data remains yours and the model is yours - eg if you delete your account, the data and model goes away (think of

Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow The data remains yours and the model is yours - eg if you delete your account, the data and model goes away (think of it like the data or model you stored on a VM). However, what I think you're looking for is to be able to actually download the model, and I'm afraid that's not possible. Are you looking to avoid lock-in? Or something else?

sharemywin 9y ago
outside audits of data handling practices.
- TheIronYuppie 9y ago
  Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow I'll make sure we have clear statements/auditing on this! We're already committed to GDPR[1] - is there a specific additional service/certification you'd like to see? [1] https://www.google.com/cloud/security/gdpr/ https://www.google.com/cloud/security/gdpr/
  - sharemywin 9y ago
    curious is that Europe only?
  - bistro17 9y ago
    and addressing model interpretibility?
chimtim 9y ago
Then what is "Auto ML"? It sounds like just another cloud service.
- rasmi 9y ago
  Compared to ML Engine, where you provide the labeled data and model code, with AutoML, you just provide the labeled data (with your custom labels for whichever domain you may be working in) and AutoML builds the model for you.
- jmngomes 9y ago
  Similar to Amazon's ML: https://aws.amazon.com/aml/details/ https://aws.amazon.com/aml/details/ Eventually useful for building a very basic model to serve as a benchmark for a real model.
  - chimtim 9y ago
    This does not sound very useful. The entire market and AI consulting is for that last 5% of accuracy. Is there a reason why Google is investing so heavily in this space? Perhaps a simple model/UI is a good starting point for many customers, and many of them end up renting the classic cloud after they gain some expertise. And the rationale for all this PR is that Google does not want to miss these customers to Amazon
    - TheIronYuppie 9y ago
      Disclosure: I work at Google at Kubeflow There are a few different reasons: 1) Most companies have very limited skill in building advanced models. While many folks are trying to achieve 5% or better accuracy, MOST folks are trying to achieve ANY accuracy (since they have nothing) 2) Many problems are not very complicated and do not require a custom model. From the blog post, the "cloud" example only requires a small amount of changes to classify for a specific domain - to have to build an entirely new model for that, or train on MM of images seems like overkill 3) AutoML (often) is better than humans already[1]. So if you want to achieve that 5%, you MIGHT need to use a machine anyway. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559 https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559
      - chimtim 9y ago
        Exactly, most non-IT companies have very limited skills in this area. This is why they outsource. As an analogy, when I want to furnish my office, I look for an interior decorator who takes care of ordering furniture etc., within a budget. I don't screw around with a 3D printing API to make chairs and tables. It is too low level and not my core expertise. And second, your comment that most folks achieve any accuracy is strange. These are not real businesses, they are mostly developers and hobbyists trying to learn. These folks sign up for kaggle and poke a few scripts and view half a class on coursera on ML. They are not real businesses and they have no money. Most of the real businesses are hiring startups or large companies that hire data scientists with domain expertise like in oil, manufacturing etc. (the IBM model). ML as an API is a disaster as a business model. Also, AutoML is not even close to being better than humans even for a specific problem (across datasets). These click-bait titles don't fly outside of AI conferences.
- TheIronYuppie 9y ago
  Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow Correct, it's a cloud service, based on the research Google published for model exploration[1][2]. There are research examples today where this service provided better models than humans were able to achieve by hand or with genetic algorithms (models trained faster and/or with better error rates)[3] [1] https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/zh-CN//pubs/archive/46180.pdf https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.c... [2] https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/02/google-vizier-a-service-for-black-box-optimization/ https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/02/google-vizier-a-service-... [3] https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559 https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559
  - charls_Aws 9y ago
    Excuse me for saying this, but you don't have to put that disclosure sentence with every comment ...(personally, I find it kind of irritating)
    - TheIronYuppie 9y ago
      My worry is that people deep link to a comment and think that I'm astroturfing. Trying to balance spam vs. full disclosure. Note I left it off of this one. :)
RubenSandwich 9y ago
I can't speak for OP, but I'd expect to download the generated model otherwise my business is locked into this service. If Google is worried about people just generating models and running, then charge for training time/resources.
- TheIronYuppie 9y ago
  Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow That's fair - the reality is that it's less about the worry of people "taking of models and running it themselves", it's more about the amount of custom stuff that has to go on behind the scenes in order to enable this kind of model exploration and training. We're exploring all options but, yes, you'd be committing to the platform (for now). If you're interested in a portable solution, may I recommend (extremely selfishly) Kubeflow[1]? We don't provide AutoML, but we do provide a very portable solution for running an ML stack. [1] https://github.com/google/kubeflow https://github.com/google/kubeflow

sharemywin 9y ago

outside audits of data handling practices.

TheIronYuppie 9y ago
Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow I'll make sure we have clear statements/auditing on this! We're already committed to GDPR[1] - is there a specific additional service/certification you'd like to see? [1] https://www.google.com/cloud/security/gdpr/ https://www.google.com/cloud/security/gdpr/
- sharemywin 9y ago
  curious is that Europe only?
- bistro17 9y ago
  and addressing model interpretibility?

chimtim 9y ago

Then what is "Auto ML"? It sounds like just another cloud service.

rasmi 9y ago
Compared to ML Engine, where you provide the labeled data and model code, with AutoML, you just provide the labeled data (with your custom labels for whichever domain you may be working in) and AutoML builds the model for you.
jmngomes 9y ago
Similar to Amazon's ML: https://aws.amazon.com/aml/details/ https://aws.amazon.com/aml/details/ Eventually useful for building a very basic model to serve as a benchmark for a real model.
- chimtim 9y ago
  This does not sound very useful. The entire market and AI consulting is for that last 5% of accuracy. Is there a reason why Google is investing so heavily in this space? Perhaps a simple model/UI is a good starting point for many customers, and many of them end up renting the classic cloud after they gain some expertise. And the rationale for all this PR is that Google does not want to miss these customers to Amazon
  - TheIronYuppie 9y ago
    Disclosure: I work at Google at Kubeflow There are a few different reasons: 1) Most companies have very limited skill in building advanced models. While many folks are trying to achieve 5% or better accuracy, MOST folks are trying to achieve ANY accuracy (since they have nothing) 2) Many problems are not very complicated and do not require a custom model. From the blog post, the "cloud" example only requires a small amount of changes to classify for a specific domain - to have to build an entirely new model for that, or train on MM of images seems like overkill 3) AutoML (often) is better than humans already[1]. So if you want to achieve that 5%, you MIGHT need to use a machine anyway. [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559 https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559
    - chimtim 9y ago
      Exactly, most non-IT companies have very limited skills in this area. This is why they outsource. As an analogy, when I want to furnish my office, I look for an interior decorator who takes care of ordering furniture etc., within a budget. I don't screw around with a 3D printing API to make chairs and tables. It is too low level and not my core expertise. And second, your comment that most folks achieve any accuracy is strange. These are not real businesses, they are mostly developers and hobbyists trying to learn. These folks sign up for kaggle and poke a few scripts and view half a class on coursera on ML. They are not real businesses and they have no money. Most of the real businesses are hiring startups or large companies that hire data scientists with domain expertise like in oil, manufacturing etc. (the IBM model). ML as an API is a disaster as a business model. Also, AutoML is not even close to being better than humans even for a specific problem (across datasets). These click-bait titles don't fly outside of AI conferences.
TheIronYuppie 9y ago
Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow Correct, it's a cloud service, based on the research Google published for model exploration[1][2]. There are research examples today where this service provided better models than humans were able to achieve by hand or with genetic algorithms (models trained faster and/or with better error rates)[3] [1] https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/zh-CN//pubs/archive/46180.pdf https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.c... [2] https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/02/google-vizier-a-service-for-black-box-optimization/ https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/10/02/google-vizier-a-service-... [3] https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559 https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.00559
- charls_Aws 9y ago
  Excuse me for saying this, but you don't have to put that disclosure sentence with every comment ...(personally, I find it kind of irritating)
  - TheIronYuppie 9y ago
    My worry is that people deep link to a comment and think that I'm astroturfing. Trying to balance spam vs. full disclosure. Note I left it off of this one. :)

RubenSandwich 9y ago

I can't speak for OP, but I'd expect to download the generated model otherwise my business is locked into this service. If Google is worried about people just generating models and running, then charge for training time/resources.

TheIronYuppie 9y ago
Disclosure: I work at Google on Kubeflow That's fair - the reality is that it's less about the worry of people "taking of models and running it themselves", it's more about the amount of custom stuff that has to go on behind the scenes in order to enable this kind of model exploration and training. We're exploring all options but, yes, you'd be committing to the platform (for now). If you're interested in a portable solution, may I recommend (extremely selfishly) Kubeflow[1]? We don't provide AutoML, but we do provide a very portable solution for running an ML stack. [1] https://github.com/google/kubeflow https://github.com/google/kubeflow