4 ms·

I think we have to ask ourselves, why do we need apps that run on the local machine anyway? 90% of my CPU time goes to Chrome/Firefox. Outlook in one of those r

I think we have to ask ourselves, why do we need apps that run on the local machine anyway? 90% of my CPU time goes to Chrome/Firefox. Outlook in one of those runs better than Outlook native on Windows. Play music in the browser works as well as any native music player. Netflix in edge runs as good as the UWP Netflix app. I suspect there's a lot of code reuse among them. There is no mass market for desktop apps anymore. Even things like slack run better in the browser than outside as an independent app, because they anyway use a browser engine to run for compatibility. I use vim and VS code for editing. Vim doesn't need a new framework, and VS code bundles an entire web browser engine within it (electron), again, for cross platform compatibility. All the internal company tools like code review, ticket management, etc. which used to be native apps, now run in the browser, too. So let me ask again, why do we need a new app framework at all? What we have with WPF is good enough for the rare app that actually needs to run natively. Everything else is a web app already.

garganzol 9y ago
Web apps deliver scientifically non-reproducible results and have obvious privacy implications. As a consequence, people cannot use them to design a PCB, simulate a circuit, drive a production line and everything like that on professional scale. Yes, Web is a damn good technology for distribution, consumption and communication, but I vaguely imagine a situation when a professional relies on Web to do the real manufacturing job on a daily basis with guaranteed, stable and reproducible outcomes. Please note that enterprise is a huge paying market. You cannot ignore it, as it lies behind everything you can buy in this world.
- jenscow 9y ago
  But, would you consider UWP being appropriate with those types of applications? I mean, if an application is well suited for UWP, then it's probably better off as a web app.
  - mcaravey 9y ago
    For example : I used to work for a power system analysis company that built a UWP app for use by engineers while on the floor of a factory or something similar. Is used for drawing electrical diagrams, data capture, and there had been plans for some level of analysis in the app too. But the main reason it is a UWP app is the touch interface. Not really feasible as a web app, especially if there's no internet on the factory floor. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/easypower-onsite/9nblggh5ggfk https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/easypower-onsite/9nb...
titanix2 9y ago
You comment like if internet access was a given: always available, fast, (free), etc. which is in practice not the case for everybody everywhere. Availability problems also occur at the other end: remember when GitHub was down because of an issue with Amazon S3. And it also extend to updates: if a webapp make an update that's breaking productivity for some reason, you're screwed. On the other hand, you can ignore them on desktop and work like you always do. Also there is the data ownership, privacy and professional secrecy problematics. Why should I give every bits of my data to an external entity who can then do everything with it when I can do the processing on my own hardware? This is a total none sense. So there is many reasons for desktop app to be still relevant.
- antaviana 9y ago
  Also the Store is a deal-breaker for B2B apps. It is not acceptable to not be able to make available an emergency hot fix when your customer somehow depends on your desktop application to make her own money. The Store publishing latency is probably acceptable for free B2C apps, but not for B2B applications.
  - mhermher 9y ago
    The store is an orthogonal issue to UWP, which can exist independently of the store.
  - Kipters 9y ago
    Enterprises have been able to distribute apps outside the Store since Windows 8.0 back in 2012. With Windows 10 you can just distribute the .appx and install it with a double click (given you've installed its certificate or if its CA is already trusted, which is common in enterprise environments). No Store required.

garganzol 9y ago

Web apps deliver scientifically non-reproducible results and have obvious privacy implications. As a consequence, people cannot use them to design a PCB, simulate a circuit, drive a production line and everything like that on professional scale. Yes, Web is a damn good technology for distribution, consumption and communication, but I vaguely imagine a situation when a professional relies on Web to do the real manufacturing job on a daily basis with guaranteed, stable and reproducible outcomes. Please note that enterprise is a huge paying market. You cannot ignore it, as it lies behind everything you can buy in this world.

jenscow 9y ago
But, would you consider UWP being appropriate with those types of applications? I mean, if an application is well suited for UWP, then it's probably better off as a web app.
- mcaravey 9y ago
  For example : I used to work for a power system analysis company that built a UWP app for use by engineers while on the floor of a factory or something similar. Is used for drawing electrical diagrams, data capture, and there had been plans for some level of analysis in the app too. But the main reason it is a UWP app is the touch interface. Not really feasible as a web app, especially if there's no internet on the factory floor. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/easypower-onsite/9nblggh5ggfk https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/easypower-onsite/9nb...

titanix2 9y ago

You comment like if internet access was a given: always available, fast, (free), etc. which is in practice not the case for everybody everywhere. Availability problems also occur at the other end: remember when GitHub was down because of an issue with Amazon S3. And it also extend to updates: if a webapp make an update that's breaking productivity for some reason, you're screwed. On the other hand, you can ignore them on desktop and work like you always do. Also there is the data ownership, privacy and professional secrecy problematics. Why should I give every bits of my data to an external entity who can then do everything with it when I can do the processing on my own hardware? This is a total none sense. So there is many reasons for desktop app to be still relevant.

antaviana 9y ago
Also the Store is a deal-breaker for B2B apps. It is not acceptable to not be able to make available an emergency hot fix when your customer somehow depends on your desktop application to make her own money. The Store publishing latency is probably acceptable for free B2C apps, but not for B2B applications.
- mhermher 9y ago
  The store is an orthogonal issue to UWP, which can exist independently of the store.
- Kipters 9y ago
  Enterprises have been able to distribute apps outside the Store since Windows 8.0 back in 2012. With Windows 10 you can just distribute the .appx and install it with a double click (given you've installed its certificate or if its CA is already trusted, which is common in enterprise environments). No Store required.