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This is obviously cool on many levels but fundamentally this is very sad. This, while places in the US don’t have clean running water. The best national defense

This is obviously cool on many levels but fundamentally this is very sad. This, while places in the US don’t have clean running water. The best national defense is creating a next generation that’s healthy, worldly and educated. Instead, this.

rayiner 9y ago
I’m not sure what your point is. We already spend more on education and healthcare per capita than almost every other developed country. At what point is it appropriate to spend the incremental dollar on defense instead?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- linkmotif 9y ago
  I was with you until you called it the "incremental dollar". We spend 3x more on defense than the nearest competitor[0]—0.6 trillion dollars per year. Given that we only collect $3 trillion per year[1], after debt service we're not really left with that much. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... [1] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud...
  - fehfehfoo 9y ago
    I'm under the impression that if the USA doesn't maintain a significant level of military superiority, it will quickly find itself under duress from myriad sources. This is a path which once you start down, you're somewhat committed to in perpetuity.
    - linkmotif 9y ago
      > I'm under the impression that if the USA doesn't maintain a significant level of military superiority, it will quickly find itself under duress from myriad sources. Is England under duress? Is France under duress? Are the Dutch under duress? Is Spain under duress? Most importantly, at what point do we ask ourselves what it is that we are even defending? 50% of the population making less than 5 richest people?
      - rayiner 9y ago
        > Is England under duress? Is France under duress? Are the Dutch under duress? Is Spain under duress? Those countries were under duress for years during the Cold War, and were protected by the U.S.'s massive military spending during that time. And given that Russia recently annexed part of a sovereign country, those times may be back.
        linkmotif 9y ago
        Right, but Russia spends less than one tenth of what we spend on defense. Certainly the Western World can scrape together enough to defend itself from Russia. They took Crimea and Eastern Ukraine because they knew no one would do anything. I think they know where the lines are drawn, and I don’t know why those lines cost the United States $550-600bn per year to maintain.
        rayiner 9y ago
        First, unofficial estimates of Russia’s defense budget are about $70 billion: https://www.rt.com/business/russia-increases-military-spendings-702 https://www.rt.com/business/russia-increases-military-spendi.... Second, Russia doesn’t pay soldiers US salaries. Russia’s purchasing power parity (PPP) GDP is 2.6x higher than its exchange rate GDP. Applying that same factor to Russia’s defense budget results in $182 billion. Third, we quite reasonably don’t want to maintain mere parity with our enemies. We want a decisive if not overwhelming advantage. That costs exponentially more money. It’s like Intel’s spending on fab R&D. Intel spends 6x as much as TSMC and 4x as much as Samsung. That buys Intel a well under 50% advantage in fabrication process over those companies. Or airliners. In constant dollars, the 777 cost twice as much as the 747. The 787 cost another factor of two more. For 4x the cost, improvement in fuel use per passenger mile is under 40%. It would be amazing if the less than 3x (real) difference in spending gave us even a twice as capable military.

rayiner 9y ago

I’m not sure what your point is. We already spend more on education and healthcare per capita than almost every other developed country. At what point is it appropriate to spend the incremental dollar on defense instead?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
linkmotif 9y ago
I was with you until you called it the "incremental dollar". We spend 3x more on defense than the nearest competitor[0]—0.6 trillion dollars per year. Given that we only collect $3 trillion per year[1], after debt service we're not really left with that much. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_... [1] https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/revenues/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud...
- fehfehfoo 9y ago
  I'm under the impression that if the USA doesn't maintain a significant level of military superiority, it will quickly find itself under duress from myriad sources. This is a path which once you start down, you're somewhat committed to in perpetuity.
  - linkmotif 9y ago
    > I'm under the impression that if the USA doesn't maintain a significant level of military superiority, it will quickly find itself under duress from myriad sources. Is England under duress? Is France under duress? Are the Dutch under duress? Is Spain under duress? Most importantly, at what point do we ask ourselves what it is that we are even defending? 50% of the population making less than 5 richest people?
    - rayiner 9y ago
      > Is England under duress? Is France under duress? Are the Dutch under duress? Is Spain under duress? Those countries were under duress for years during the Cold War, and were protected by the U.S.'s massive military spending during that time. And given that Russia recently annexed part of a sovereign country, those times may be back.
      - linkmotif 9y ago
        Right, but Russia spends less than one tenth of what we spend on defense. Certainly the Western World can scrape together enough to defend itself from Russia. They took Crimea and Eastern Ukraine because they knew no one would do anything. I think they know where the lines are drawn, and I don’t know why those lines cost the United States $550-600bn per year to maintain.
        rayiner 9y ago
        First, unofficial estimates of Russia’s defense budget are about $70 billion: https://www.rt.com/business/russia-increases-military-spendings-702 https://www.rt.com/business/russia-increases-military-spendi.... Second, Russia doesn’t pay soldiers US salaries. Russia’s purchasing power parity (PPP) GDP is 2.6x higher than its exchange rate GDP. Applying that same factor to Russia’s defense budget results in $182 billion. Third, we quite reasonably don’t want to maintain mere parity with our enemies. We want a decisive if not overwhelming advantage. That costs exponentially more money. It’s like Intel’s spending on fab R&D. Intel spends 6x as much as TSMC and 4x as much as Samsung. That buys Intel a well under 50% advantage in fabrication process over those companies. Or airliners. In constant dollars, the 777 cost twice as much as the 747. The 787 cost another factor of two more. For 4x the cost, improvement in fuel use per passenger mile is under 40%. It would be amazing if the less than 3x (real) difference in spending gave us even a twice as capable military.