7 ms·

Counter point. Late 30s here, family, no car, no license. I use cabs all the time, it's great. I have a fine social life and can drink safely. I can rent houses

Counter point. Late 30s here, family, no car, no license. I use cabs all the time, it's great. I have a fine social life and can drink safely. I can rent houses and move about for work, then change countries without offloading assets at fire-sale prices. I choose not to live in an unpleasant climate, so snow is a non-issue for me. Have you considered the option that maybe you just don't get it? Cars are responsible for many problems including wasted space, noise, visual and air pollution, danger, and unpleasant urban space breakdowns. The Highway and Automobile culture are symbols of totalitarian cultures which deny people more sustainable and equitable alternatives for mobility and transport - Vandana Shiva, February 19, 2004. The reality is that most people live in dense Asian urban environments, and this trend is increasing. More and more people rely solely on public transport, and this is a good thing for society and the environment. If everyone carried on like Americans or Australians, global warming would be insane. Let's encourage pluralism and change. Cars have had their chance - the 1950s called and wants its suburban utopia back.

Nition 9y ago
> noise, visual and air pollution, danger, How is calling a taxi every time you need a car any better than using a car you own in these areas? I do agree that the need for parking spaces is improved.
- sagarm 9y ago
  Reduced need to dedicate public space to storing private vehicles, a more efficient fleet (since they're incentivizes to optimize for cost/mi), no time spent looking or paying for parking, no need to maintain or fuel a vehicle, reduced risk of impaired driving, more experienced/capable drivers, freedom to switch between transit modes (cycle/walk somewhere but call a car to get back due to time of day/weather), often cheaper than owning a vehicle after considering all costs (depreciation, maintenance, insurance). Outside a sufficiently dense city the pros might not outweigh the cons, but if walking/cycling/transit can cover most of your travel you probably don't need a car for the other half. I only have one for leaving the the city.
Noos 9y ago
That's called "being wealthy." Being wealthy enables you to escape a lot of the problems that not having a car involves, because you can just throw money at the problem to overcome it. A lot of people are not wealthy and cannot do this. There's also a bit of good fortune involved. I was young, single, and healthy. But I'm older now, and there are times when I simply cannot afford to use public transit or walk. If you get the flu, you don't even have the choice; walking fifteen minutes to get medicine or food is agony. And you always have to walk fifteen minutes, just to get to the transit spot. You feel the weather a lot more as you age; a brisk rain shower is rougher on you at 40 than at 20. And come on, what can be more totalitarian than restricting the ability of people to move beyond a tiny radius apart from communal vehicles that can be shut down on a whim?
- contingencies 9y ago
  I think you are evaluating many things from an American context and you reveal that you are older. IMHO the problem with American environments are that they're often semi-explicitly designed around the car. If you are used to a car, not having one is probably a horrible prospect. However, as you explicitly discussed aging, you can't put your head in the sand - obviously eventually you won't be able to drive a car, so you'd better get ready for it. Most of the US likely won't change quickly enough to lessen that challenge for you, but perhaps with younger generations behind change one day that issue won't be faced by others.
  - Noos 9y ago
    You can drive a car a lot longer than you can walk. I could do a 30 minute walk as a younger person, but now it's something I could only do as a special thing, not every day to a job. Society will not be able to redesign for this; if anything it's other people who own cars that act as caregivers for housebound seniors as their work.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Oh, wow, that's not my experience at all. Most of my older relatives and their friends walked 30m/day into their 80s, long after they no longer had the reflexes or eyesight to be safe drivers. The thing with walking is that it's very much a "use it or lose it" thing; people who never owned cars are much more likely to keep walking.
jrwiegand 9y ago
I agree that not owning a car would be better than owning. But simply saying "you should move to a better place" is not only a privileged statement but also a callous one. You assume people are not in a place for important reasons like staying close to family, working for a company they like, simply loving where they live or not being able to afford living to an urban environment. These are all valid and if not owning a car is too prohibitive to basic life needs than a person should own a car. Also, the Americans or Australians comment is a bit of a broad stoke, no?
- contingencies 9y ago
  I personally choose not to live in a freezing place, and most people can do that. Even without crossing a border intra-EU/CN/US/AU moves achieve this goal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... and order by 'emission per capita'.
  - Noos 9y ago
    You exchange freezing for warming, as if walking in 100 degree temperatures works any more than 0 degrees.
- ck425 9y ago
  This is true, but you can also petition your local authorities for better public transport, bike lanes etc. You can campaign against urban sprawl. One of the issues at the moment is complete lack of awareness of any alternative to car centric urban planning.
carterehsmith 9y ago
>> I can rent houses and move about for work, then change countries without offloading assets at fire-sale prices. Um. Do you have... kids? Spouse?
scythe 9y ago
>Counter point. Late 30s here, family, no car, no license. I use cabs all the time, it's great. I have a fine social life and can drink safely. I can rent houses and move about for work, then change countries without offloading assets at fire-sale prices. I choose not to live in an unpleasant climate, so snow is a non-issue for me. Have you considered the option that maybe you just don't get it? There's nothing to "get". His experiences are his experiences. I've also tried the living-without-a-car thing, and in both Atlanta and the Bay Area, it's about as fun as... I don't know, walking on hot coals or something. The fact that you feel otherwise (while living on a salary that allows you to talk about "offloading assets") doesn't invalidate his actual life.

Nition 9y ago

> noise, visual and air pollution, danger, How is calling a taxi every time you need a car any better than using a car you own in these areas? I do agree that the need for parking spaces is improved.

sagarm 9y ago
Reduced need to dedicate public space to storing private vehicles, a more efficient fleet (since they're incentivizes to optimize for cost/mi), no time spent looking or paying for parking, no need to maintain or fuel a vehicle, reduced risk of impaired driving, more experienced/capable drivers, freedom to switch between transit modes (cycle/walk somewhere but call a car to get back due to time of day/weather), often cheaper than owning a vehicle after considering all costs (depreciation, maintenance, insurance). Outside a sufficiently dense city the pros might not outweigh the cons, but if walking/cycling/transit can cover most of your travel you probably don't need a car for the other half. I only have one for leaving the the city.

Noos 9y ago

That's called "being wealthy." Being wealthy enables you to escape a lot of the problems that not having a car involves, because you can just throw money at the problem to overcome it. A lot of people are not wealthy and cannot do this. There's also a bit of good fortune involved. I was young, single, and healthy. But I'm older now, and there are times when I simply cannot afford to use public transit or walk. If you get the flu, you don't even have the choice; walking fifteen minutes to get medicine or food is agony. And you always have to walk fifteen minutes, just to get to the transit spot. You feel the weather a lot more as you age; a brisk rain shower is rougher on you at 40 than at 20. And come on, what can be more totalitarian than restricting the ability of people to move beyond a tiny radius apart from communal vehicles that can be shut down on a whim?

contingencies 9y ago
I think you are evaluating many things from an American context and you reveal that you are older. IMHO the problem with American environments are that they're often semi-explicitly designed around the car. If you are used to a car, not having one is probably a horrible prospect. However, as you explicitly discussed aging, you can't put your head in the sand - obviously eventually you won't be able to drive a car, so you'd better get ready for it. Most of the US likely won't change quickly enough to lessen that challenge for you, but perhaps with younger generations behind change one day that issue won't be faced by others.
- Noos 9y ago
  You can drive a car a lot longer than you can walk. I could do a 30 minute walk as a younger person, but now it's something I could only do as a special thing, not every day to a job. Society will not be able to redesign for this; if anything it's other people who own cars that act as caregivers for housebound seniors as their work.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Oh, wow, that's not my experience at all. Most of my older relatives and their friends walked 30m/day into their 80s, long after they no longer had the reflexes or eyesight to be safe drivers. The thing with walking is that it's very much a "use it or lose it" thing; people who never owned cars are much more likely to keep walking.

jrwiegand 9y ago

I agree that not owning a car would be better than owning. But simply saying "you should move to a better place" is not only a privileged statement but also a callous one. You assume people are not in a place for important reasons like staying close to family, working for a company they like, simply loving where they live or not being able to afford living to an urban environment. These are all valid and if not owning a car is too prohibitive to basic life needs than a person should own a car. Also, the Americans or Australians comment is a bit of a broad stoke, no?

contingencies 9y ago
I personally choose not to live in a freezing place, and most people can do that. Even without crossing a border intra-EU/CN/US/AU moves achieve this goal. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... and order by 'emission per capita'.
- Noos 9y ago
  You exchange freezing for warming, as if walking in 100 degree temperatures works any more than 0 degrees.
ck425 9y ago
This is true, but you can also petition your local authorities for better public transport, bike lanes etc. You can campaign against urban sprawl. One of the issues at the moment is complete lack of awareness of any alternative to car centric urban planning.

carterehsmith 9y ago

>> I can rent houses and move about for work, then change countries without offloading assets at fire-sale prices. Um. Do you have... kids? Spouse?

scythe 9y ago

>Counter point. Late 30s here, family, no car, no license. I use cabs all the time, it's great. I have a fine social life and can drink safely. I can rent houses and move about for work, then change countries without offloading assets at fire-sale prices. I choose not to live in an unpleasant climate, so snow is a non-issue for me. Have you considered the option that maybe you just don't get it? There's nothing to "get". His experiences are his experiences. I've also tried the living-without-a-car thing, and in both Atlanta and the Bay Area, it's about as fun as... I don't know, walking on hot coals or something. The fact that you feel otherwise (while living on a salary that allows you to talk about "offloading assets") doesn't invalidate his actual life.