8 ms·

Windows 10 could have synced email, contacts, calendars with all major providers

124 points by kaplun 9y ago

merb 9y ago
What would be a worse headline? Something like that probably: > Sniggering Linux users who believe in open code and open standards can take a hike. The Online Accounts systems in GNOME, Ubuntu Unity, Plasma, and MATE do the exact same thing as Window 10 ouch. but to be fair you can configure carddav/caldav manually on linux (but well I didn't liked evolution so much, mutt is okish but only for text. well mac mail.app is worse since it can't send csv files correctly (it adds unnecessary lines into it depending on the encoding)) (and well gnome only supports 3 email providers with cal/contact sync in their boxes which is microsoft, google and exchange (you can also add generic smtp/imap of course but it's about caldav/carddav), and one can prolly use nextcloud for carddav/caldav sync which is supported in the box aswell)
- LeoPanthera 9y ago
  The GNOME accounts panel allows the addition of arbitrary CalDAV, CardDAV, IMAP, SMTP accounts. Also worth pointing out that iOS and macOS also do, too.
  - merb 9y ago
    where? https://imgur.com/a/apKjy https://imgur.com/a/apKjy (ubuntu latest, I also have a fedora but I only have the machine remotly which I can't access at the moment, but I'm 100% sure that is has no way to setup caldav/carddav directly inside the accounts panel)
    - Xylakant 9y ago
      I can confirm that at least Fedora 26 cannot. You have to go via evolution.
  - d2wa 9y ago
    > The only ones who get a free pass on this is macOS and iOS users. These two platforms have excellent support for and let users and businesses setup CalDAV and CardDAV accounts on their devices without pretending to be, ironically enough, an Apple iCloud account.
- scarface74 9y ago
  Are they really "picking" winners by going with the largest providers? iOS allows you to pick other providers, but it has an easy to use interface for adding email addresses for iCloud, Exchange, Yahoo, AOL, outlook.com and Gmail. I don't see how MS benefits from only supporting top tier providers except for it being easier to support.
- Something1234 9y ago
  > well mac mail.app is worse since it can't send csv files correctly (it adds unnecessary lines into it depending on the encoding)) There's mail clients that mess with my attachments???! That's just wrong.
Havoc 9y ago
Don't want Windows near my mails / contacts / cal anyway. Windows serves three purposes for me: 1) Launch browser 2) Launch VLC 3) Launch Steam
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- swirepe 9y ago
  4. launch eclipse at 9am 5. close eclipse at 5pm
  - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
    s/eclipse/Visual Studio/ Or Solidworks, Quickbooks, Photoshop or whatever it is you do between 9 and 5.
    - megaman22 9y ago
      I try my best never to close Visual Studio... some of the solutions I work on are so painful to reload. Double-click the sln, ho to the bathroom, get a cup of coffee, come back, and it's still thrashing disk and locked up. Much better to keep everything warm.
  - PascLeRasc 9y ago
    Same for me but with Ubuntu for Windows SSH'd into my development server. In that respect I don't know why the OP was downvoted so much. I don't think any of us use Win10's Metro-esque apps it promotes so much or try to make it like a phone with notifications and integrations.
- fyi1183 9y ago
  Funny, I do all three of these on Linux.
  - Havoc 9y ago
    No you don't. If I could Steam effectively on *nix I'd have dropped windows years ago.
d2wa 9y ago
Why settle for promoting support for open protocols and standards when you have the power to pick winners and losers in the market?
inlined 9y ago
Honestly, the decision to lock down to a golden path smells more to me like a way of keeping support responsibilities constrained. What happens if the integrating service has a quirk? Microsoft and that service might argue which service is at fault and in the meantime customers will blame Windows.
- CephalopodMD 9y ago
  It's probably this. For any "open standard" there's going to be a few different interpretations of what that means across the board. Different services often have sightly different ideas about how their APIs should work, which causes weird edge cases. Supporting all clients arbitrarily without first making sure they all work is a headache for devs and is likely to result in crashes/data loss/etc. I'm guessing that the client was never designed to be a fully fleshed out classic email app. They probably have some baked in ease of use/set up features that they had to explicitly included on a per provider basis. Having a list of pre-approved clients that are guaranteed to work probably satisfies the grand majority of users while leaving these features maintainable.
ChicagoDave 9y ago
Outside of Outlook at work, I can't even remember the last time I used an actual "client" for e-mail. I use the browser interface of the couple different email services I use. This is likely just a support/cost issue. When you leave something "open" in Windows, it has to be tested and supported and it's not as simple as "all of these things use the same protocols". So they narrowed the support strategy and focused testing on the main email services. I see no problem with this.
- chris_wot 9y ago
  That’s really not accurate. They can still test the main services, but if third party services don’t work then I can’t see they have to do any more work. It’s not like you get unpaid support for Windows already. An operating system like Windows, in my view, should have programs that support open standards and not restrict who you can and can’t use.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  I use an actual client every single day, and leave the browser for those rare moments I need to go to an internet cafe.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
  Local email backups are one compelling reason. I've had an e-mail address since 1999 or so, back when usa.net was still a thing. Until about this time last year, I was strictly a webmail reader. Never saw the point in configuring Outlook/Eudora/Thunderbird/Geary, etc. HTML email inside my browser worked just fine, and it meant I could check it from any computer, to boot. Then I read some story on HN about a guy getting his gmail account shutdown and subsequently losing access to his emails, his Drive, his Photos, several websites he had hosted through Blogger, etc. And since these were all "free" services provided by Google, when they decided to shut down his account, he had no legal recourse. The idea of losing 10+ years of emails at the whim of my provider didn't sit well with me, so at that point I installed Thunderbird on my desktop and started keeping a local copy of all my e-mails. Just in case.
  - 8ytecoder 9y ago
Spivak 9y ago
I think the author is being unintentionally ironic with the title. Windows 10 does have support for all major email providers. The article is claiming it could just as easily have support for niche ones as well. I really don't know why people are assuming that MS is being malicious -- they support exactly their direct and realistic competitors to Exchange. If the author seriously thinks that 腾讯首页 or Nextcloud, which doesn't even have an email server component, are sapping users from Exchange he's crazy.
- mauriciob 9y ago
  In addition, albeit a stupid conclusion, by supporting all major email providers, they are supporting the majority of email users around the world.
- dahauns 9y ago
  QQ, Yandex or GMX are niche? You're suffering from a severe case of US-centrism.
- int_19h 9y ago
  The point is that it supports all the necessary standards, so if it just had a way to add a custom provider and let the user specify protocols and servers, it'd work.
leeter 9y ago
It would be interesting to run CalDav and CardDav compliance tests against all the providers and see who's actually compliant. This seems like a "We don't want to deal with someone wondering why their ______ service won't work even though it's returning a completely invalid response" decision.
acd 9y ago
Windows could have had a proper update system that security updates all software not just Microsoft products. Instead we got the Windows store updates which is a strange in that normal Windows programs do not get security patched. In the future I think Windows will be a paid compatibility layer in Linux. Building on SQL server libraries for Linux could be a start for such a compatibility layer. Cloud and web apps has made Windows desktop more irrelevant. Most likely there will be an Linux desktop alliance between for example Ubuntu, Amazon, Steam and PC makers that will make the Linux desktop more user friendly.
- Nuzzerino 9y ago
  Ubuntu has gotten less user-friendly over the years. Out of the handful of distros I use, it is the only one that gives me frequent crashes with the various widgets that come with the distro's default desktop environment. Configuration tooling is also convoluted and buggy, as they build on top of existing configuration tooling, so now there are more points of failure. And the software repositories are often multiple versions behind the latest stable release. Ubuntu is doing great things for Microsoft.
- merb 9y ago
  > Most likely there will be an Linux desktop alliance between for example Ubuntu, Amazon, Steam and PC makers that will make the Linux desktop more user friendly. read the article. linux/ubuntu has the same issue. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162698
kokey 9y ago
After spending a rather long time without Windows and Outlook I've recently been using the current version of the desktop and web client. It's quite functional and the workflow and features work intuitively and it actually looks nice but the font sizes and layout really bother me. Having used a Mac for very long the font rendering of Outlook on Windows makes it even worse for me. I find it more work to read and identify what to read. I have noticed a certain number of individuals at my previous workplace often missed some e-mails and thinking about it made me remember that they Windows Outlook users and where I work now a lot of people simply don't seem to read their e-mails and everyone is using Outlook on Windows.
Nuzzerino 9y ago
How is this any different from Google arbitrarily deranking/delisting search results, or YouTube arbitrarily demonetizing videos?
- rickycook 9y ago
  in those cases, people are also rightfully annoyed, but you can’t tackle all the worlds problems in a single blog post
reaperducer 9y ago
It took a long time, but this is one of the things that Apple seems to have finally gotten the hang of. iCloud sync of to-do lists, notes, contacts, calendar, and Handoff between 6 computers and iDevices is a big thing that keeps me in the Mac ecosystem. It wasn't always reliable, and the first few years were particularly rough, but it's been working flawlessly for me for the last couple of years. Naturally, there are other people for whom things are not so smooth.
- mr_toad 9y ago
  Hand-off of phone phone calls and copy & paste between devices impressed me the most.
  - reaperducer 9y ago
    Every now and again I'll forget my phone in the car. I only find out about it when an incoming phone call starts ringing on my Mac.
- d2wa 9y ago
  You’re actually talking about the same open protocols here. macOS/iOS lets users configure it from any provider, but Windows has limited configuration to a handful of branded providers. Even though they’re all using the same set of protocols.
chris_wot 9y ago
Is there Gnome integration for CalDAV, out of interest? I’m always interested in knowing how Gnome and KDE fairs against Windows.
- Nullabillity 9y ago
  KDE/Plasma supports both custom CalDAV[0] and "GroupDAV"[1] (seems to be a subset of CalDAV+CardDAV according to Wikipedia) servers. [0]: https://i.imgur.com/xFG2JaJ.png https://i.imgur.com/xFG2JaJ.png [1]: https://i.imgur.com/yLPWx6R.png https://i.imgur.com/yLPWx6R.png
- d2wa 9y ago
  It’s mentioned in the article. GNOME (and KDE) supports it, but has the same problem as Windows where they only let you configure it from major branded providers. You can open Evolution, configure it there, and have it work globally in all GNOME apps, but this is poorly documented.
megaman22 9y ago
This is their junky Windows Store mail app, right? I'm an Outlook jockey, so it's been a while since I've tried to use that - primarily because it wasn't all that usable. I've been guilty of it in the past, but you gotta love some good armchair programming (from the OP): > In my estimate Microsoft, it’s just a matter of changing about six variables in the code and adding some text strings!
ghostbust555 9y ago
But, you can? If you open the mail app and choose add account pop3/imap is an option. What is this guy smoking?
- jmiserez 9y ago
  But can you sync calendars and contacts? CalDAV and CardDAV are the standards talked about in the article. They’re supported internally, but you seem to have no way to add the URLs if it’s anything other than the mentioned providers.
- d2wa 9y ago
  The article is about the CalDAV and CardDAV protocols which is the IMAP equivalent for syncing your calendars and contacts.
  - drdaeman 9y ago
    So the article incorrectly titled as it uses word "email" while W10 does support arbitrary POP/IMAP/SMTP mail systems.
alexkavon 9y ago
This blog post uses a work around featured in another blog post on the net. I filed a bug for this a while ago (after discovering said post) on their Feedback app, several times. I'd really love to believe in Microsoft and their push for UWP and a better ecosystem but their priorities aren't on functioning and featureful software but instead only appearing they are building functioning and featureful software.
Digital-Citizen 9y ago
The article says: "Sniggering Linux users who believe in open code and open standards can take a hike. The Online Accounts systems in GNOME, Ubuntu Unity, Plasma, and MATE do the exact same thing as Window 10. There are underlying CalDAV and CardDAV sync engines (Evolution Data Server, Akonadi) that power them but the user interface only expose two–three providers like Google and Yahoo! with no option to auto-discover or manually configure any other providers." I think this takes a needlessly limited view by casting the limits imposed on users of nonfree software onto free software (which is odd because elsewhere the author says they love free software). Here's the overlooked difference: with a free software program, one can improve the code to add the desired functionality and interoperability. Users can even get together and collectively fund a programmer to help them out. By contrast, Microsoft Windows 10 Email app is nonfree (proprietary, user-subjugating). Even technically capable and willing users are prohibited from reading the relevant source code, modifying it, and distributing it to help others. Even if Microsoft alters their code to add missing functionality, users likely gain no software freedom in the process. Users aren't allowed to inspect and rebuild the software. Software freedom leads to trusting that software and proprietary software is often malware (https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.html https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.html for pointers to how Microsoft's software is often malware). Software freedom is the key to understanding the difference. This limitation has nothing to do with GNU/Linux systems (unfairly referred to as "Linux" in the article; see https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux for more on this) per se; software can be ported to other OSes and the desired features could be available there too. Standards that allow interoperability are a good unto themselves, just like software freedom, and we should push for both, use both, and improve both to meet our needs, not "take a hike" as the author suggests. With software freedom users don't have to beg a software proprietor (who is also a known NSA collaborator and multinational antitrust violator) to make the software more interoperable. They can help themselves, they can hire someone to help, they can ask the community (perhaps in more kind words than the article) to help. These are potent options that render the software trustworthy (regardless of who wrote it) and with sufficient improvement even cross-platform.
jasonkostempski 9y ago
I tried using the Mail app for my work Office 365 email account because the web UI is so awful. Turned out the app is pretty much exactly the same. Bulk operations, except deleting (the one bulk operation I never wanted), are pretty much impossible to do; simple UI features, like copy/paste are broken in several ways; search is close to useless; annoying extra "features" I have to turn off ("@" replies, chat). Any benefit OS integration provides is completely negated, and then some, by all the other inconveniences of the app.
wilhil 9y ago
One thing that I actually hate on Windows 10 compared to Windows 8 is the native apps - it is a huge step backwards. I have a Microsoft Account on my work (Office 365) email address. Windows 8 worked perfectly - if you signed in to Windows with a MS account, it would ask you "do you want to use your personal or organisation account" and then you could add your email account with the same message. Windows 10 on the other hand just errors out... https://superuser.com/q/1267281/4386 https://superuser.com/q/1267281/4386 This is most annoying because Outlook does update the "system" calendar or the home screen, you get none of the rich integrations. Cortana just errors out whenever you try to interact with the calendar. What's funny is, I can use my Office 365 account on my Mac without problems and use Siri to make appointments, get notifications when to leave etc.

124 points by kaplun 9y ago

merb 9y ago

What would be a worse headline? Something like that probably: > Sniggering Linux users who believe in open code and open standards can take a hike. The Online Accounts systems in GNOME, Ubuntu Unity, Plasma, and MATE do the exact same thing as Window 10 ouch. but to be fair you can configure carddav/caldav manually on linux (but well I didn't liked evolution so much, mutt is okish but only for text. well mac mail.app is worse since it can't send csv files correctly (it adds unnecessary lines into it depending on the encoding)) (and well gnome only supports 3 email providers with cal/contact sync in their boxes which is microsoft, google and exchange (you can also add generic smtp/imap of course but it's about caldav/carddav), and one can prolly use nextcloud for carddav/caldav sync which is supported in the box aswell)

LeoPanthera 9y ago
The GNOME accounts panel allows the addition of arbitrary CalDAV, CardDAV, IMAP, SMTP accounts. Also worth pointing out that iOS and macOS also do, too.
- merb 9y ago
  where? https://imgur.com/a/apKjy https://imgur.com/a/apKjy (ubuntu latest, I also have a fedora but I only have the machine remotly which I can't access at the moment, but I'm 100% sure that is has no way to setup caldav/carddav directly inside the accounts panel)
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    I can confirm that at least Fedora 26 cannot. You have to go via evolution.
- d2wa 9y ago
  > The only ones who get a free pass on this is macOS and iOS users. These two platforms have excellent support for and let users and businesses setup CalDAV and CardDAV accounts on their devices without pretending to be, ironically enough, an Apple iCloud account.
scarface74 9y ago
Are they really "picking" winners by going with the largest providers? iOS allows you to pick other providers, but it has an easy to use interface for adding email addresses for iCloud, Exchange, Yahoo, AOL, outlook.com and Gmail. I don't see how MS benefits from only supporting top tier providers except for it being easier to support.
Something1234 9y ago
> well mac mail.app is worse since it can't send csv files correctly (it adds unnecessary lines into it depending on the encoding)) There's mail clients that mess with my attachments???! That's just wrong.

Havoc 9y ago

Don't want Windows near my mails / contacts / cal anyway. Windows serves three purposes for me: 1) Launch browser 2) Launch VLC 3) Launch Steam

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
swirepe 9y ago
4. launch eclipse at 9am 5. close eclipse at 5pm
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  s/eclipse/Visual Studio/ Or Solidworks, Quickbooks, Photoshop or whatever it is you do between 9 and 5.
  - megaman22 9y ago
    I try my best never to close Visual Studio... some of the solutions I work on are so painful to reload. Double-click the sln, ho to the bathroom, get a cup of coffee, come back, and it's still thrashing disk and locked up. Much better to keep everything warm.
- PascLeRasc 9y ago
  Same for me but with Ubuntu for Windows SSH'd into my development server. In that respect I don't know why the OP was downvoted so much. I don't think any of us use Win10's Metro-esque apps it promotes so much or try to make it like a phone with notifications and integrations.
fyi1183 9y ago
Funny, I do all three of these on Linux.
- Havoc 9y ago
  No you don't. If I could Steam effectively on *nix I'd have dropped windows years ago.

d2wa 9y ago

Why settle for promoting support for open protocols and standards when you have the power to pick winners and losers in the market?

inlined 9y ago

Honestly, the decision to lock down to a golden path smells more to me like a way of keeping support responsibilities constrained. What happens if the integrating service has a quirk? Microsoft and that service might argue which service is at fault and in the meantime customers will blame Windows.

CephalopodMD 9y ago
It's probably this. For any "open standard" there's going to be a few different interpretations of what that means across the board. Different services often have sightly different ideas about how their APIs should work, which causes weird edge cases. Supporting all clients arbitrarily without first making sure they all work is a headache for devs and is likely to result in crashes/data loss/etc. I'm guessing that the client was never designed to be a fully fleshed out classic email app. They probably have some baked in ease of use/set up features that they had to explicitly included on a per provider basis. Having a list of pre-approved clients that are guaranteed to work probably satisfies the grand majority of users while leaving these features maintainable.

ChicagoDave 9y ago

Outside of Outlook at work, I can't even remember the last time I used an actual "client" for e-mail. I use the browser interface of the couple different email services I use. This is likely just a support/cost issue. When you leave something "open" in Windows, it has to be tested and supported and it's not as simple as "all of these things use the same protocols". So they narrowed the support strategy and focused testing on the main email services. I see no problem with this.

chris_wot 9y ago
That’s really not accurate. They can still test the main services, but if third party services don’t work then I can’t see they have to do any more work. It’s not like you get unpaid support for Windows already. An operating system like Windows, in my view, should have programs that support open standards and not restrict who you can and can’t use.
pjmlp 9y ago
I use an actual client every single day, and leave the browser for those rare moments I need to go to an internet cafe.
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
Local email backups are one compelling reason. I've had an e-mail address since 1999 or so, back when usa.net was still a thing. Until about this time last year, I was strictly a webmail reader. Never saw the point in configuring Outlook/Eudora/Thunderbird/Geary, etc. HTML email inside my browser worked just fine, and it meant I could check it from any computer, to boot. Then I read some story on HN about a guy getting his gmail account shutdown and subsequently losing access to his emails, his Drive, his Photos, several websites he had hosted through Blogger, etc. And since these were all "free" services provided by Google, when they decided to shut down his account, he had no legal recourse. The idea of losing 10+ years of emails at the whim of my provider didn't sit well with me, so at that point I installed Thunderbird on my desktop and started keeping a local copy of all my e-mails. Just in case.
- 8ytecoder 9y ago

Spivak 9y ago

I think the author is being unintentionally ironic with the title. Windows 10 does have support for all major email providers. The article is claiming it could just as easily have support for niche ones as well. I really don't know why people are assuming that MS is being malicious -- they support exactly their direct and realistic competitors to Exchange. If the author seriously thinks that 腾讯首页 or Nextcloud, which doesn't even have an email server component, are sapping users from Exchange he's crazy.

mauriciob 9y ago
In addition, albeit a stupid conclusion, by supporting all major email providers, they are supporting the majority of email users around the world.
dahauns 9y ago
QQ, Yandex or GMX are niche? You're suffering from a severe case of US-centrism.
int_19h 9y ago
The point is that it supports all the necessary standards, so if it just had a way to add a custom provider and let the user specify protocols and servers, it'd work.

leeter 9y ago

It would be interesting to run CalDav and CardDav compliance tests against all the providers and see who's actually compliant. This seems like a "We don't want to deal with someone wondering why their ______ service won't work even though it's returning a completely invalid response" decision.

acd 9y ago

Windows could have had a proper update system that security updates all software not just Microsoft products. Instead we got the Windows store updates which is a strange in that normal Windows programs do not get security patched. In the future I think Windows will be a paid compatibility layer in Linux. Building on SQL server libraries for Linux could be a start for such a compatibility layer. Cloud and web apps has made Windows desktop more irrelevant. Most likely there will be an Linux desktop alliance between for example Ubuntu, Amazon, Steam and PC makers that will make the Linux desktop more user friendly.

Nuzzerino 9y ago
Ubuntu has gotten less user-friendly over the years. Out of the handful of distros I use, it is the only one that gives me frequent crashes with the various widgets that come with the distro's default desktop environment. Configuration tooling is also convoluted and buggy, as they build on top of existing configuration tooling, so now there are more points of failure. And the software repositories are often multiple versions behind the latest stable release. Ubuntu is doing great things for Microsoft.
merb 9y ago
> Most likely there will be an Linux desktop alliance between for example Ubuntu, Amazon, Steam and PC makers that will make the Linux desktop more user friendly. read the article. linux/ubuntu has the same issue. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162698 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16162698

kokey 9y ago

After spending a rather long time without Windows and Outlook I've recently been using the current version of the desktop and web client. It's quite functional and the workflow and features work intuitively and it actually looks nice but the font sizes and layout really bother me. Having used a Mac for very long the font rendering of Outlook on Windows makes it even worse for me. I find it more work to read and identify what to read. I have noticed a certain number of individuals at my previous workplace often missed some e-mails and thinking about it made me remember that they Windows Outlook users and where I work now a lot of people simply don't seem to read their e-mails and everyone is using Outlook on Windows.

Nuzzerino 9y ago

How is this any different from Google arbitrarily deranking/delisting search results, or YouTube arbitrarily demonetizing videos?

rickycook 9y ago
in those cases, people are also rightfully annoyed, but you can’t tackle all the worlds problems in a single blog post

reaperducer 9y ago

It took a long time, but this is one of the things that Apple seems to have finally gotten the hang of. iCloud sync of to-do lists, notes, contacts, calendar, and Handoff between 6 computers and iDevices is a big thing that keeps me in the Mac ecosystem. It wasn't always reliable, and the first few years were particularly rough, but it's been working flawlessly for me for the last couple of years. Naturally, there are other people for whom things are not so smooth.

mr_toad 9y ago
Hand-off of phone phone calls and copy & paste between devices impressed me the most.
- reaperducer 9y ago
  Every now and again I'll forget my phone in the car. I only find out about it when an incoming phone call starts ringing on my Mac.
d2wa 9y ago
You’re actually talking about the same open protocols here. macOS/iOS lets users configure it from any provider, but Windows has limited configuration to a handful of branded providers. Even though they’re all using the same set of protocols.

chris_wot 9y ago

Is there Gnome integration for CalDAV, out of interest? I’m always interested in knowing how Gnome and KDE fairs against Windows.

Nullabillity 9y ago
KDE/Plasma supports both custom CalDAV[0] and "GroupDAV"[1] (seems to be a subset of CalDAV+CardDAV according to Wikipedia) servers. [0]: https://i.imgur.com/xFG2JaJ.png https://i.imgur.com/xFG2JaJ.png [1]: https://i.imgur.com/yLPWx6R.png https://i.imgur.com/yLPWx6R.png
d2wa 9y ago
It’s mentioned in the article. GNOME (and KDE) supports it, but has the same problem as Windows where they only let you configure it from major branded providers. You can open Evolution, configure it there, and have it work globally in all GNOME apps, but this is poorly documented.

megaman22 9y ago

This is their junky Windows Store mail app, right? I'm an Outlook jockey, so it's been a while since I've tried to use that - primarily because it wasn't all that usable. I've been guilty of it in the past, but you gotta love some good armchair programming (from the OP): > In my estimate Microsoft, it’s just a matter of changing about six variables in the code and adding some text strings!

ghostbust555 9y ago

But, you can? If you open the mail app and choose add account pop3/imap is an option. What is this guy smoking?

jmiserez 9y ago
But can you sync calendars and contacts? CalDAV and CardDAV are the standards talked about in the article. They’re supported internally, but you seem to have no way to add the URLs if it’s anything other than the mentioned providers.
d2wa 9y ago
The article is about the CalDAV and CardDAV protocols which is the IMAP equivalent for syncing your calendars and contacts.
- drdaeman 9y ago
  So the article incorrectly titled as it uses word "email" while W10 does support arbitrary POP/IMAP/SMTP mail systems.

alexkavon 9y ago

This blog post uses a work around featured in another blog post on the net. I filed a bug for this a while ago (after discovering said post) on their Feedback app, several times. I'd really love to believe in Microsoft and their push for UWP and a better ecosystem but their priorities aren't on functioning and featureful software but instead only appearing they are building functioning and featureful software.

Digital-Citizen 9y ago

The article says: "Sniggering Linux users who believe in open code and open standards can take a hike. The Online Accounts systems in GNOME, Ubuntu Unity, Plasma, and MATE do the exact same thing as Window 10. There are underlying CalDAV and CardDAV sync engines (Evolution Data Server, Akonadi) that power them but the user interface only expose two–three providers like Google and Yahoo! with no option to auto-discover or manually configure any other providers." I think this takes a needlessly limited view by casting the limits imposed on users of nonfree software onto free software (which is odd because elsewhere the author says they love free software). Here's the overlooked difference: with a free software program, one can improve the code to add the desired functionality and interoperability. Users can even get together and collectively fund a programmer to help them out. By contrast, Microsoft Windows 10 Email app is nonfree (proprietary, user-subjugating). Even technically capable and willing users are prohibited from reading the relevant source code, modifying it, and distributing it to help others. Even if Microsoft alters their code to add missing functionality, users likely gain no software freedom in the process. Users aren't allowed to inspect and rebuild the software. Software freedom leads to trusting that software and proprietary software is often malware (https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.html https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-microsoft.html for pointers to how Microsoft's software is often malware). Software freedom is the key to understanding the difference. This limitation has nothing to do with GNU/Linux systems (unfairly referred to as "Linux" in the article; see https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Linux for more on this) per se; software can be ported to other OSes and the desired features could be available there too. Standards that allow interoperability are a good unto themselves, just like software freedom, and we should push for both, use both, and improve both to meet our needs, not "take a hike" as the author suggests. With software freedom users don't have to beg a software proprietor (who is also a known NSA collaborator and multinational antitrust violator) to make the software more interoperable. They can help themselves, they can hire someone to help, they can ask the community (perhaps in more kind words than the article) to help. These are potent options that render the software trustworthy (regardless of who wrote it) and with sufficient improvement even cross-platform.

jasonkostempski 9y ago

I tried using the Mail app for my work Office 365 email account because the web UI is so awful. Turned out the app is pretty much exactly the same. Bulk operations, except deleting (the one bulk operation I never wanted), are pretty much impossible to do; simple UI features, like copy/paste are broken in several ways; search is close to useless; annoying extra "features" I have to turn off ("@" replies, chat). Any benefit OS integration provides is completely negated, and then some, by all the other inconveniences of the app.

wilhil 9y ago

One thing that I actually hate on Windows 10 compared to Windows 8 is the native apps - it is a huge step backwards. I have a Microsoft Account on my work (Office 365) email address. Windows 8 worked perfectly - if you signed in to Windows with a MS account, it would ask you "do you want to use your personal or organisation account" and then you could add your email account with the same message. Windows 10 on the other hand just errors out... https://superuser.com/q/1267281/4386 https://superuser.com/q/1267281/4386 This is most annoying because Outlook does update the "system" calendar or the home screen, you get none of the rich integrations. Cortana just errors out whenever you try to interact with the calendar. What's funny is, I can use my Office 365 account on my Mac without problems and use Siri to make appointments, get notifications when to leave etc.