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I've been thinking a lot about misogyny in video games. I'm currently 80 hours into "Zelda Breath of the Wild". It's a beautiful game, and the heart of the st

I've been thinking a lot about misogyny in video games. I'm currently 80 hours into "Zelda Breath of the Wild". It's a beautiful game, and the heart of the story is basically a typical "save the princess" dynamic. But I've killed hundreds of dragons and other beasts in order to save Zelda... with the full expectation that my character (link) will be getting laid at the end of the game. Princess Zelda has no agency in my ideal game. And worse.... I don't want her to. If I found out the end of the game resulted in me requesting a relationship from Zelda and it only potentially happening, I would be so beyond upset. But shouldn't Zelda have a choice? I would like to be a person who was at least OK with her having one. Is this game conditioning me to be rapist? Or at least the type of man who thinks he should receive sexual reciprocation for purchasing dinner & drinks on a date? Maybe I'm just overly invested in this game's story line. But games do contain meaningful experiences that you can remember for a lifetime. I think it's good to think about how those stories effect you. We know video games aren't turning kids into mindless zombies, but the narratives in this games can become part of the lenses we see the world by. Some video games may even make you think differently not just about the outer world, but how you see own your place in it. EDIT: I've got a lot of good responses here. The consensus is that these thoughts say more about me, than the video game, which I think is a fair assessment. I'm a 'sort-of-bad' person who would like to 'become-a-better' person, and I also really love video games. So I think about the evolution of my moral character in the context of the games I play. Maybe I think too much about it like you guys are saying, but don't put me in the camp of blaming video games for societies problems. I'm just saying video games are fun, but they can also get in your head and be more than that. They can open up dialogues and make you think about things in new ways.

Retric 9y ago
I think that expectation says more about you than the video game.
- colanderman 9y ago
  Agreed. If Nintendo wants to imply that the protagonist of a Zelda game is sexually rewarded for completing the quest, they're explicit about it [1]. [1] http://www.cracked.com/article_21462_6-bizarrely-sexual-easter-eggs-lurking-in-kids-video-games.html http://www.cracked.com/article_21462_6-bizarrely-sexual-east..., scroll to #1 (last)
bberrry 9y ago
Is this game conditioning me to be rapist? Oh come on. The lengths you took that to, when applied to anything, will result in insane conclusions.
otakucode 9y ago
Any person who looks at the world presented in Breath of the Wild and then maps so extremely selectively the way you did only a tiny handful of the concepts onto their own world... would not be capable of conducting themselves in any reasonable society. Why look at 'princess Zelda lacks some agency' and map that to all women instead of 'princess Zelda can summon the most powerful weapons in existence and grant me control over them' to all women? Because the second would make you sound like a lunatic? Yeah, the first one does too. Why, honestly, do you presume the gender of these characters? Link wears very tight clothing for much of the game and it is crystal clear that either he has no penis or else he is horrifically mutilated. Perhaps a future game will explain how he was emasculated by Gannon or something. Oh, hey, what about Gannon? He's kind-of male right? Why not map him onto all men and start fearing your dad is going to morph into a demon horse-thing? When it comes right down to it, most people who seek to "analyze" videogames fall flat on their face. They pick and choose only the barest threads of concepts out of a game, refuse to follow any of them to any serious degree, and extrapolate ludicrous conclusions without ever addressing why those conclusions are any less valid than extrapolating out the other details of the world in exactly the same way.
taeric 9y ago
I've always been much more worried about inherent racial biasing in fantasy than I have expectations of relationships. So, agreed with sibling that this specific one says more about you than the game. :) That said, in the Zelda games, I was always reading the story more about doing it for the sake of making the world better. Not due to Zelda at all. I actually don't remember the story of the original one, just that there was a bad guy that you use the triforce to defeat.
cuckcuckspruce 9y ago
There are plenty of other interests in the main character, and many characters that you become close to as part of the game. The fact that there is a group of heroes, all very close, all interested in saving the world, means that this game, more than previous ones, is sort of subverting the "save the princess, get a wife" trope in my eyes. Every member of the group of heroes in the story is a realized character with their own motivations (borne out more in the DLC), and all of them, if you are looking for a relationship - notice _you_ not the game, would be potentially interested in the player character.
NoodleIncident 9y ago
I don't think any LoZ games have any sort of relationship between Link and Zelda, canonically.
- MollyR 9y ago
  I think skyward sword was the only one that implied a romantic relationship.
Para2016 9y ago
This is probably the lamest way to make a point I've seen on HN. Just say you agree with the article next time.
borplk 9y ago
It amuses me to no end to see that the west has now reached a point of peace, abundance, and prosperity for people to start to ponder these twisted bizarre questions. It sounds so sheltered and out of touch.
berbec 9y ago
I always took Zelda, Peach et al as the MacGuffin [1]. Saving them etc is the "goal", but is actually unimportant to the game. As far as I'm concerned, Super Mario World, my favorite platformer, would stay my favorite if Bowser had stolen Mario's favorite pipe wrench. The idea of romantic/sexual release after getting the TriForce was very far from my mind. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

Retric 9y ago

I think that expectation says more about you than the video game.

colanderman 9y ago
Agreed. If Nintendo wants to imply that the protagonist of a Zelda game is sexually rewarded for completing the quest, they're explicit about it [1]. [1] http://www.cracked.com/article_21462_6-bizarrely-sexual-easter-eggs-lurking-in-kids-video-games.html http://www.cracked.com/article_21462_6-bizarrely-sexual-east..., scroll to #1 (last)

bberrry 9y ago

Is this game conditioning me to be rapist? Oh come on. The lengths you took that to, when applied to anything, will result in insane conclusions.

otakucode 9y ago

Any person who looks at the world presented in Breath of the Wild and then maps so extremely selectively the way you did only a tiny handful of the concepts onto their own world... would not be capable of conducting themselves in any reasonable society. Why look at 'princess Zelda lacks some agency' and map that to all women instead of 'princess Zelda can summon the most powerful weapons in existence and grant me control over them' to all women? Because the second would make you sound like a lunatic? Yeah, the first one does too. Why, honestly, do you presume the gender of these characters? Link wears very tight clothing for much of the game and it is crystal clear that either he has no penis or else he is horrifically mutilated. Perhaps a future game will explain how he was emasculated by Gannon or something. Oh, hey, what about Gannon? He's kind-of male right? Why not map him onto all men and start fearing your dad is going to morph into a demon horse-thing? When it comes right down to it, most people who seek to "analyze" videogames fall flat on their face. They pick and choose only the barest threads of concepts out of a game, refuse to follow any of them to any serious degree, and extrapolate ludicrous conclusions without ever addressing why those conclusions are any less valid than extrapolating out the other details of the world in exactly the same way.

taeric 9y ago

I've always been much more worried about inherent racial biasing in fantasy than I have expectations of relationships. So, agreed with sibling that this specific one says more about you than the game. :) That said, in the Zelda games, I was always reading the story more about doing it for the sake of making the world better. Not due to Zelda at all. I actually don't remember the story of the original one, just that there was a bad guy that you use the triforce to defeat.

cuckcuckspruce 9y ago

There are plenty of other interests in the main character, and many characters that you become close to as part of the game. The fact that there is a group of heroes, all very close, all interested in saving the world, means that this game, more than previous ones, is sort of subverting the "save the princess, get a wife" trope in my eyes. Every member of the group of heroes in the story is a realized character with their own motivations (borne out more in the DLC), and all of them, if you are looking for a relationship - notice _you_ not the game, would be potentially interested in the player character.

NoodleIncident 9y ago

I don't think any LoZ games have any sort of relationship between Link and Zelda, canonically.

MollyR 9y ago
I think skyward sword was the only one that implied a romantic relationship.

Para2016 9y ago

This is probably the lamest way to make a point I've seen on HN. Just say you agree with the article next time.

borplk 9y ago

It amuses me to no end to see that the west has now reached a point of peace, abundance, and prosperity for people to start to ponder these twisted bizarre questions. It sounds so sheltered and out of touch.

berbec 9y ago

I always took Zelda, Peach et al as the MacGuffin [1]. Saving them etc is the "goal", but is actually unimportant to the game. As far as I'm concerned, Super Mario World, my favorite platformer, would stay my favorite if Bowser had stolen Mario's favorite pipe wrench. The idea of romantic/sexual release after getting the TriForce was very far from my mind. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin